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exactly.
I dont see why Islam has anything to do with it.
LOADS of people would never fight for Britain. Its got nothing to do with creed/colour/religion or whether you would ever need the benefits system or the NHS ever.
We pay taxes for that, its got nothing to do with whether we`d be prepared to die for the government.
Youre assuming that theyve "come here" from somewhere.
Us & them
:yes:
Maybe in their culture joining a military, or something like that is wrong?
I mean you wouldn't get British Buddhists joining either probably, or Jains.
You can still have communities and integrate as well. I go to university alongside Muslims (my campus is majoritively black working class) and we're perfectly civil.
It's about people with different needs too. Yeah Muslim people tend to hang around together, as do the people from the Jewish society, as do people from the SWP, as do the rockers... It's all about having things in common. If religion is the centre of your life then you want to be around people who feel the same, you want that good vibe and of course access to a place of worship, the foods, the music, the social side of it.
I'm not saying I don't think ghettoisation is a good thing, but much more needs to be done with educating people about different cultures rather than people making assumptions by what they've read in comic books like The Sun. It should be the work of the Muslim community to send people out to educate in schools, as with the Hindu community, as with the Sikh community and so on. It should be the work of everybody to facilitate understanding and access to information.
The problem with people not integrating is as much to do with the rest of society as communities.
Well from what I gather one aregument is "why shouldn't Muslims want to be in the forces" and the other is "why do some people from different cultures (muslims etc) slate our country but stay here"
How is fighting in Iraq, fighting for our country?
this isnt a debate on what we think of Iraq so this not turn it into one?
Because our government is a warmongering interventionist one, at a guess?
Fighting to defend our country on the other hand, well we haven't had to do that for decades...
What if they're British? Where are they going to fuck off to?
What did the twin towers have to do with Iraq?
I have no respect for our government or politicians. Does that mean I should fuck off somewhere else?
Well, yes it is in some respects. The issue of Iraq is one of the major things that is pissing off a lot of Muslims and pushing them into the arms of the fundy nutters.
That argument could go on for years (well, let's face it, it has). But the question is, should someone who disagrees with the government's policy on, for example, the war, still respect the job the military is doing out of a sense of Britishness? Similarly, should someone who disagrees with the UK government's policy on drugs still respect the police force for the job they do? And is the opinion of someone from "another culture" on these issues, as valid as "native Brits?"
I don't particularly respect the job the military is doing. Why should I?
Out of a sense of Britishness? I dunno, I agree with you. I was just trying to outline what I think the debate is.
no absolutely not, this kind of blind loyalty and patriotism is exactly what hitler's youth was about for example.
I personally see it as an appreciation of Monty Python more than a general support of the military.
I dont see why someone from another country that comes here should be obliged to support the military any more than I do.
What is a sense of Britishness? Surely its many things to many people? I agree that dividing people up because of race/culture is not particularly healthy for society, but what do I have in common with Prince Harry? I have more in common with some Muslims than I do with the Royal Family, for example.
i really cant be arsed to type a lengthy responce so i'll keep it simple for you.
shut up.
People from this country go over to Pakistan to learn how to be terrorists in terrorist training camps, if they hate britain so much they should fucking stay there and plot there terror activitys from over there instead of living in our community and trying to destroy it from the inside.
Well that's what I'm saying. I mean if you're born here, it seems you can have whatever the fuck opinion you want on anything to do with Britain, but if you're one of "them" (frequently muslims in the present climate - often born here ironically) and you carry a dislike of an aspect of British culture, or political policy, the people who support that policy will come out with all this bullshit about you "not respecting British culture" and "if you dislike it so much, go home." I don't know how much of this is thinly veiled racism, and how much of it is trying to avoid actually talking about the issues by discrediting the opposition in the debate.
I tend to agree with you on that tbh, although probably not for the same reasons.
A bit of both I think.
From my point of view its about people living in this country, getting the good from this country but using terrorism and fighting against it from the inside.
thats a simple one, if someone is British and if found Guilty of terrorism Against the UK then they should be taken out and shot, simple that one
So terror is OK if its the sanctioned by the state?