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British or not????

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sophia wrote: »
    I am British and yet I would categorically not support any of my family members if they had a desire to join the forces, I'd do anything in my power to change their mind. And if I didn't, it would be because I accepted their individual right to fuck their lives up and make terrible decisions, and not because I support the armed forces and think it's a great career for young people. So where exactly should I fuck off to, seeing as all my family are British as far back as I know?
    Are you thick or something? Or just not reading anything that I post?
    Fiend wrote:
    British culture does not necessarily mean that you have to drink your tea thick enough to float a horseshoe on with milk and two please luv, it does not necessarily mean you'll join up to show jonny foreigner what for, it does not necessarily mean you're up for giving anyone six of the best. All of those things are part of it in some way, but there are hundreds, thousands of other little things that are part of british culture as well. Like queuing, and saying sorry when it's not your fault, and thinking good table manners are next to godliness. All most people would ask is there be some sign of giving back to the culture they're taking all the nice things from, making something new and better that what there was before.
    Fiend wrote:
    he {lickalotapuss} said that he felt that part of being british was a willingness to support a desire to join the armed forces, and that he was up for having his mind changed

    ffs.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How have I not answered your question? Why don't you have another read of what I posted hmm?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whether you can peg it as strictly "racist" or not, I don't think I've seen such a hate-filled thread in ages. Almost makes you ashamed to be British, eh.

    Anyway, did I read wrongly or was there some implication that British Muslims don't queue... or say sorry when they're wrong? :confused: That's not to even mention that I don't think apologising or queueing are exclusively British attributes either -- despite what anti-German/French/American/Japanese propaganda might have us believe.

    The individuals in question are - without a doubt - deluded and reprehensible. They're no reflection on the British Muslim community though, of course.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sophia wrote: »
    Great argument, calling me thick, and a nice way to actually avoid answering the question I put to you. What a charming and delightful creature you are, and a real asset to the boards.
    Great argument calling me racist!! Your a real asset to the boards!!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    briggi wrote: »
    Anyway, did I read wrongly or was there some implication that British Muslims don't queue... or say sorry when they're wrong? :confused:

    Yeah, you're wrong. You might want to read that again.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    briggi wrote: »
    Whether you can peg it as strictly "racist" or not, I don't think I've seen such a hate-filled thread in ages. Almost makes you ashamed to be British, eh.
    The individuals in question are - without a doubt - deluded and reprehensible. They're no reflection on the British Muslim community though, of course.
    Proud to be British!!
    I live in place where the muslim community is massive, I've grown up with it, I've gone to school with it, I get along with that community. A stones throw from where I live is where 1 of the 7/7 bombers lived and its this part of the community I have so much hate for, which IMO is fully justified. But I also see law-abiding muslims who would never commit such an attrocity but still have this hatred for Britain/England and its this that REALLY gets to me when they are living in our country and getting all the benefits living in a counry like England gives you but then preaching hate about it!! If this makes me racist then I put my hand up, I'm racist, but I don't think it does!!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    there are scum in all ethnic cultures/communities (like those who try to kidnap british muslim soldiers), but this isn't something exclusive to the muslim community, and it's a bit of a stretch to go on and say that anyone who disagrees with people joining the army, be they muslim or whoever, should fuck off out the country.....i see where you're coming from lickalotofpuss but you're blurring the lines. obviously it's not acceptable to kidnap people, but to object to someone joining the army and criticise them for it is a bit different.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I know, it came out all wrong to start with and like I've mentioned other people have explained what I meant a lot better than I managed to.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I know, it came out all wrong to start with and like I've mentioned other people have explained what I meant a lot better than I managed to.

    Now the point is clearer, I agree very much. If people of any race and walk of life hate this place so much, why stay? Surely if it's good enough to stay, it's good enough to like.
    But a contribute could be a lot of people find they aren't treated very well by small minorites of other people, thus making them not like the country? I don't know, I'm just guessing here.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ok, correct me if I'm wrong lickalotapuss, but I'm going to try and articulate your point of view with the use of an analogy.

    Someone joins my sports team, but the only time they come to training is when they've got a twinge and want the team physio to have a look. It would not be unreasonable to say to such a person "train for real, or leave".

    Now just to clarify, because ommision is as good as racism apparently, I am not saying that all muslims only come here because we have benefits and they think they can sponge forever. What I'm saying is that when someone joins your community, your culture, you want some evidence that they're giving back, that they enjoy the culture in all it's glory, not just for the benefits (like a team physio). Training for a sports team is hard work, you get cold, you get muddy, you get angry, you get shouted at, you get it right, you get it wrong, and you get a physio and a doctor right there if you need them. All I would want from a team member, is evidence of effort at training, not just taking advantage.

    And as such, I think what lickalotapuss, and many like him want, is evidence that the muslim [feel free to insert variant] community are making an effort to take part of bits of british culture. Being british is not loving everything and believing everything you could ever possibly list about what british is (and I personally believe that's not possible so multi-faceted is it) it's loving and believing parts of it, wanting to improve others, wanting to stop others, and having no opinion on yet more parts of it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Proud to be British!!
    I live in place where the muslim community is massive, I've grown up with it, I've gone to school with it, I get along with that community.

    I have lived/grown up and gotten along with that community too, I think they balance their pride in their religion and their integration into "British" "culture" very well indeed. As for their preaching about the ills of this country and culture, well if that makes you a target for vitriol and finger-pointing then I guess I'd better watch my back. In my opinion it is a sign of a broad and enquiring mind to be able to recognise problems and disadvantages a country and nationality has, while also recognising the good things to come out of it (in this instance the welfare state etc, something I'm sure you're pretty keen on too -- as most people are!). Are you seriously saying that in order to be a worthwhile citizen of Britain you have to be blindly patriotic and willing to stand up and fight/lay down a die? That's a total crock.
    A stones throw from where I live is where 1 of the 7/7 bombers lived and its this part of the community I have so much hate for, which IMO is fully justified.

    Fair fucks to you, I think understanding the reasoning behind it is key here. Not blind, impotent rage.
    But I also see law-abiding muslims who would never commit such an attrocity but still have this hatred for Britain/England and its this that REALLY gets to me when they are living in our country and getting all the benefits living in a counry like England gives you but then preaching hate about it!! If this makes me racist then I put my hand up, I'm racist, but I don't think it does!!

    "Our" country? I'm not sure who you're speaking of here... though I'd hazard a guess that you mean white Brits. Or possibly those of any colour who express blind loyalty.

    I'd rather a critical mind of any creed or colour preaching of the good AND bad, than patriots preaching about Britain as if it's the land of milk and honey. I guess I should pack my bags :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Proud to be British!!
    I live in place where the muslim community is massive, I've grown up with it, I've gone to school with it, I get along with that community. A stones throw from where I live is where 1 of the 7/7 bombers lived and its this part of the community I have so much hate for, which IMO is fully justified. But I also see law-abiding muslims who would never commit such an attrocity but still have this hatred for Britain/England and its this that REALLY gets to me when they are living in our country and getting all the benefits living in a counry like England gives you but then preaching hate about it!! If this makes me racist then I put my hand up, I'm racist, but I don't think it does!!

    Exhibit B. What the fuck is "our country"? White people? Non-Muslims? I'm British, I'm born in Britain, and I'll criticise the establishment of this country as much as I fucking want. Religion and race has absolutely nothing to do with it, but you seem to want to make that distinction. Sounds like you've got a right chip on your shoulder about muslims.

    Incidentally, I wonder how many muslim people would be against their family members joining that other wonderful British establishment, the NHS? Me thinks it's the actions that their family members would be carrying out that effects their feelings on the decision, rather than the fact the idea of them "serving Britain."
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sophia wrote: »
    Yeah yeah sure, whatever, it isn't racism. Why are we talking about Muslims

    ...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Our country.

    To me that 'our' applies to anyone that wants to be an active part of it, someone who will usually respect other citizens and have a reasonable level of support and respect for it's institutions.

    We have a Church of England, so some respect for Christianity (although that doesn't mean you have to be Christian, just not attack people who are), we have a democracy, so some respect for that, we have armed forces, so some respect for anyone that choses to fight for them.

    Edit: The above is no a definitive list, but some examples.

    I'm not saying anyone should be a puppet, but a little respect goes a long way.

    I suspect the reason racism is being dragged into this again, and the reason that Muslims are coming across in a bad light is that unfortunately the tiny minority of Muslims who have extreme views and attitudes are very vocal about them which makes it hard for anyone to see the clearer fairer picture.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Scary, the above about what britain is, totally your own opinion right For example, if someone had no respect for any of the things you listed, but respected the NHS and social services like benefits and child care, and general religious freedom, would they still be british?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    OUR COUNTRY is the country of all British people who are happy living here and do not incite hatred between communitys. Muslims are part of that, just like I said earlier I want to live in a multi-cultural society!!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    minimi38 wrote: »
    ...

    quite.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend, I've edited, they were just somem examples.

    Lickalotapus probably has since put it better than me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wasn't asking for a definative list. The list I gave earlier were all self-depreciating things that are of the stereotypical englishman.

    I was using you to make a point, british isn't fufilling all the things on everyone's list, just a couple of things.

    Eg, I'm not a fan of democracy, or rather, i'm disenchanted with it, because it doesn't work.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    OUR COUNTRY is the country of all British people who are happy living here and do not incite hatred between communitys. Muslims are part of that, just like I said earlier I want to live in a multi-cultural society!!

    And by saying that they wouldn't be happy that their family member joined the military is inciting hatred? Being un-British? What?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Stupid, have you read the whole thread? Because I think that might help.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't see anything wrong (let alone treacherous) with not wanting to join the army.

    Before you account for the current situation, there are many people out there who view wars and the military as profoundly wrong and who would not want to voluntarily become part of it.

    But when you take the current situation into account and consider the fact that if you join the army you might be sent to take part in one of the most morally repugnant wars in human history, the only wonder is why would anyone want to join.

    Britishness has nothing to do with it. The day Britain is fighting a war to defend itself and protect its people (like it happened in WWII) you will see many folks wanting, or at least tolerating the concept of taking up arms.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote: »
    Stupid, have you read the whole thread? Because I think that might help.

    Don't be so fucking patronising.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Shall I take that as a no? You're asking questions that have already been answered, so I think I can safely assume it's a no.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote: »
    Shall I take that as a no? You're asking questions that have already been answered, so I think I can safely assume it's a no.

    All I've seen so far in this thread is a vague concept of "our country" used to bash muslims, then a hasty bout of backtracking of Jade Goody proportions, as everyone points out that it's quite possible for non-muslims to feel the same way. Quite funny really.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Are you reading a different thread?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Britishness has nothing to do with it. The day Britain is fighting a war to defend itself and protect its people (like it happened in WWII) you will see many folks wanting, or at least tolerating the concept of taking up arms.


    I don’t think we got involved with the second world war to start in order to defend ourselves, i think it had more to do with protecting, or trying to protect our interests in Poland?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote: »
    Are you reading a different thread?

    Yes obviously. If someone doesn't come to the same conclusion that you do, they must be reading the wrong thread. So are you gonna contribute something, or continue nitpicking?
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