Home Politics & Debate
Come and join our Support Circle, every Tuesday, 8 - 9:30pm! Limited spaces available! Sign up here

Racism we don't see?

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
I will probably get flak for this but a couple of things in the news caught my eye, or nearly didn't.

We all have heard and seen the case of antony (I cant remember his last name), the young balck man murdered in liverpool by those 2 white guys in a racist murder. It has been news headlines for various weeks. It truely was a heinous crime.

However there has been a case recently where a white man was brutally beaten and kicked to death. Those guilty of the murder were 3 asian men, whoi were heard to brag about the attack, saying "We killed the white man". Now ont he news this recived around 5 seconds and a few lines in the odd paper. The judge claimed it was not a racist attack despite there been evidence to suggest it was.

I ask why these 2 cases have been treated differently. Why does one get mass coverage and other barely a mention. I know the case in liverpool featured an axe and a step brother of a premiership football player so that makes it more sensational, but I don't see why these 2 should be treated differently.

Is it because when a white person gets attacked by a black or an asian it is not seen as racist even when it may be?

I have also noticed there is not alot of coverage on Black on Asian or Asian on black attacks, except when it explodes into a riot, which we have seen recently.

Why is one form of racism condemned and another ignored when they are the same thing?
«1345

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The latter case you mention was not felt to be racist because the men were spoiling for a fight with anyone, not exclusively white people.

    To be racialy motivated it has to be motivated by race, not by the fact the defendant is a cunt. Walker was motivated by race, as the defendants sought out a black person deliberately; the beating by the Asian was not.

    The latter case was also given a lot of media coverage. As was the murder of a white person on the London bus.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'd say racism which isnt getting much coverage is this;

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/4479276.stm

    Avon and Sommerset police 'possitively' discriminated against white applicants.

    "Head of personnel and training, Paul Hazel, said: "The majority of those deselected were white men because the force's workforce is over-represented by white men."
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How about some links to the cases?

    Christopher Yates killing

    Anthony Walker killing
    walkindude wrote:
    The judge claimed it was not a racist attack despite there been evidence to suggest it was.

    well, except for the fact that they attacked people of all races that evening....
    But the judge ruled the attack was not racially motivated, ordering they should each serve a minimum of 15 years, for the "callous and brutal murder of a decent man who was doing you no harm."

    After murdering Yates, the three men, who had spent the evening drinking in London's West End, went on to smash up cars and assault staff in a curry restaurant.

    "Between you that morning you attacked people of all races, white, black and Asian," said judge Martin Stephens.

    "These in my judgement were random attacks carried out on people who had the misfortune to come across you in your drink-fuelled rampage."

    Reuters

    The killers of Christopher Yates will be serving a minimum of 15 years each. Within a short space of time we will know if that is less than the killers of Anthony Walker get.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There wasn't that much coverage of the man on the bus being murdered, and if you take the defence of the 2 guys in the liverpool case, nor was theres. Micheal Barton claimed, that he and other guy were out looking for a fight and they found 2 balck guys, he didn't say they went after home because he was black, but because there was 2 of them and 2 guys to fight. Of course there is the allegation of racial abuse as well.

    Also in the asian on white case, they are quoted as saying "that will show him not to stick his white nose in asian business". I think thats pretty racist.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Also add this fact. There has been an increase in councils and employers changing the rules on chrsitmas, people are not allowed to have christmass decorations at their work space and special stamps and fairs in villiages even have been made to change al because they claim it is "offensive to etjicnic minoirites and non-christians".

    Yet, if a britain goes abroad, they are expected to observe, respect and follow that cuntries religious traditionsm, such as covering up when entering a place of holy signicance, even whenb it is not your religion, it is 100 degrees out and it is a highly popular tourist attraction.

    So if britains have to observe other countries religious identity then why can't the minorities observe britains?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The only company I know of which doesn't use "Christmas" as a matter of policy is Target in the US.

    Most of this "PC gone maaaaaaad" crap is just that- crap.

    Though as bong says, there are issues with "positive" discrimination.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    Also add this fact. There has been an increase in councils and employers changing the rules on chrsitmas, people are not allowed to have christmass decorations at their work space and special stamps and fairs in villiages even have been made to change al because they claim it is "offensive to etjicnic minoirites and non-christians".

    Yet, if a britain goes abroad, they are expected to observe, respect and follow that cuntries religious traditionsm, such as covering up when entering a place of holy signicance, even whenb it is not your religion, it is 100 degrees out and it is a highly popular tourist attraction.

    So if britains have to observe other countries religious identity then why can't the minorities observe britains?

    You're talking through your arse. Hence the total absence of any links to back up your claims.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    Yet, if a britain goes abroad, they are expected to observe, respect and follow that cuntries religious traditionsm, such as covering up when entering a place of holy signicance, even whenb it is not your religion, it is 100 degrees out and it is a highly popular tourist attraction.

    If it's not your religion, then why go there?

    That's as valid as me telling a visitor to take their shoes off.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    So if britains have to observe other countries religious identity then why can't the minorities observe britains?

    What percentage of Britains actually go to Church regularly?

    We are commonly known as a 'Christian country' but we are clearly now atheistic.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bad seed wrote:
    If it's not your religion, then why go there?

    That's as valid as me telling a visitor to take their shoes off.

    That's exactly it.

    You go to Church, and you genuflect before sitting down. You go to Mosque and you take your shoes off and cover up.

    What's so bad about that?

    It's common courtesy. Something you seem to be lacking, walkindude.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fuck sake I knew it would turn into an attack on me. I am at work at the mo and have to be discreet with what I am doing so I aint gonna search the net to find all these links to put with every line I say. I'm not that anal rentetive.

    what does your opinion on religion matter? I mean despite poeple saying the church is dead and all that and the numbers that dont go to church, britain is still classed as a christian country.

    People go to places for more then rleigion, they go to see sights and such. When peopel go they observe the religious rules. What I am saying, is how can people justify to be offended by christmas imagery when foreign vistors go to their shoires and don't complian about their religious ways.

    They act istself isn't bad, as well you know I did not mean, its the respect involved.

    While I am not putting loads of links up, watch your tv, read some papers and bit by buit you collect a fair amount of such stories.

    This is a politics and debate forum is it not? I am just putting up something to talk about and not be insulted over. Or is it only certain posters who get the privilage of not being insulted.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    what does your opinion on religion matter? I mean despite poeple saying the church is dead and all that and the numbers that dont go to church, britain is still classed as a christian country.

    So even though most British people arent practicing Christians we should celebrate Christmas in a religious way regardless?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    For what it's worth, I agree that there is too much one way traffic in certain areas regarding race and religion.

    Positive discrimination? Crap. If your not good enough, your not good enough.

    Why should I accept second class service to meet some halfwits ideas of fairness? Is one way I would put it.

    The whole "you HAVE to be tolerant" gets on my tits. Especially when the people involved can't see that they are being intolerant themselves. If you want to play Ned Flanders and tolerate other people's wacky, nutcase beliefs, fine. I've got standards though.

    About the courtesy issue, that should work both ways. I am not a christian, so if I find myself in what others see as a church (to me its a big room with a guy in a dress) I will just act normally i.e. no head bowing, knee-bending collection offering mumbo jumbo.

    Just because you pray to people shaped rocks doesn't mean I have to join in.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    About the courtesy issue, that should work both ways. I am not a christian, so if I find myself in what others see as a church (to me its a big room with a guy in a dress) I will just act normally i.e. no head bowing, knee-bending collection offering mumbo jumbo.

    How is that courteous?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's couteous to me. If I don't want to join in for any or no reason, I shouldn't have to. Simple.

    Especially when the people asking me to change my behaviour are the ones who waffle on about "tolerance." i.e. you HAVE to be tolerant. Fucking annoying.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    It's couteous to me. If I don't want to join in for any or no reason, I shouldn't have to. Simple.

    Especially when the people asking me to change my behaviour are the ones who waffle on about "tolerance." i.e. you HAVE to be tolerant. Fucking annoying.

    So if I wander into your house and piss on the floor, thats fine? I'm being courteous to myself.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't understand why you'd go to a church if you're not going to join in.

    Churches bore me to death (archictecture aside), but if I decide to go to a wedding/funeral in one, then I'll be courteous to the church-people. No-one's forcing me to go there.

    If someone tried to force me to go, then they'd get told to fuck off.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    least the heat moved off me.

    Well just because the young members or members of this board aren't going to church, doesn't mean britain isn't a predominatly christian country. Even if you don't go to church, many people identify themselves as christian still.

    Christmas is a realigious holiday even though it has been so commercialised.

    My point is, I don't see anyone's arguement that christmas decorations or rferences to christmas offends them and if it does then they shouldn't be in a place that overtly celebrates christmas and other christian holidays.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    least the heat moved off me.

    Oh shut up whinging.

    Your point is being attacked, not you.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So if I wander into your house and piss on the floor, thats fine? I'm being courteous to myself.

    Talk about missing the point.

    Yes that would be fine as long as you repaired all the damage and cleaned it all up. Probably best if you didn't bother in the first place given the aggravation and cost to yourself. Not kneeling on command from the guy in the dress doesn't actually cause any damage does it?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Talk about missing the point.

    Yes that would be fine as long as you repaired all the damage and cleaned it all up. Probably best if you didn't bother in the first place given the aggravation and cost to yourself. Not kneeling on command from the guy in the dress doesn't actually cause any damage does it?

    I'm just mystified as to why you would enter a house of worship (willingly) and then not at least be respectful for the people there. And how you can call that being courteous.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bad seed wrote:
    Oh shut up whinging.

    Your point is being attacked, not you.


    Being called and arse and saying that me personally am not a courteous person IS a personal attack.

    And you countered your on post anyway by saying shut up and stop whinging.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    My point is, I don't see anyone's arguement that christmas decorations or rferences to christmas offends them and if it does then they shouldn't be in a place that overtly celebrates christmas and other christian holidays.

    Have you actually heard one person make this arguement?

    Or, have you heard people say 'we should change this in case it offends someone'?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    And you countered your on post anyway by saying shut up and stop whinging.

    ?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No, it have heard it. Its appeared in a few business and some councils have decreed reomving christmas titles from some things because it will offend the non christians. I mean just look out in your paper, local news or news and you should find some examples.

    I wa smaking that point in that post as it seemed to draw some critism and confusion.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    No, it have heard it. Its appeared in a few business and some councils have decreed reomving christmas titles from some things because it will offend the non christians. I mean just look out in your paper, local news or news and you should find some examples.

    Did you read my post at all?

    Have you heard anyone complain because they are offended by Christmas?

    Or have you heard people say that others might be offended by Christmas?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Talk about missing the point.

    No, its exactly the point.

    You go into someone's place of worship, and you obey the rules they have set for themselves in that place of worship. You'd have a point if it was walking about on the street, but if you go into a Church or Mosque then you obey the rules of the people whose Church or Mosque it is.

    If you don't like those rules, you don't go in.

    If you come in my house you take your shoes off, and you don't smoke inside. It's exactly the same principle- my place, my rules.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm just mystified as to why you would enter a house of worship (willingly) and then not at least be respectful for the people there.

    Because it's not a house of worship to me? it's just another building. Last time I went into one of those places was to stay out of the rain a good few years ago.
    And how you can call that being courteous.

    I don't see how doing nothing at all can be seen as rude unless someone else has a bug up their ass. An all that assumes that being offended is something I do, when of course it can't be.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Because it's not a house of worship to me?

    But its not your building either.

    If it was your building you'd have some semblance of an argument. It's not, so you don't.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You go into someone's place of worship, and you obey the rules they have set for themselves in that place of worship.

    Piffle. I ain't they.
    You'd have a point if it was walking about on the street, but if you go into a Church or Mosque then you obey the rules of the people whose Church or Mosque it is.

    Okay, it's all mine. Now what?
    If you come in my house you take your shoes off, and you don't smoke inside. It's exactly the same principle- my place, my rules.

    Which I always ignore. I might be in your house, but it's my body, and i'll do what the fuck I like with it, thanks. This means no kneeling, bowing etc. I wouldn't smoke, because that injures you, but that would be the case anywhere. I wouldn't leave my shoes on, that injures your property (or could)
Sign In or Register to comment.