Gays

Former Member

Kentish wrote:

Really? Actually I think people need a slap because despite being capable of empathy, we rarely exhibit it in our actions. We are naturally selfish and self-serving (evolution tells us so).
Of course, the biblical message was more subtle than a slap but Jesus answers your questions directly. Seek and ye shall find.

These are human creations. Name one "bad thing" that isn't due to thinking man is better than God.

you gotta be kidding me right?

Former Member

No, sir.

Teh_Gerbil

Apparently it has something to do with genes according to some scientists.

According to others it all to do with your life and early development.

I personally beleive that its abit of both... I can't see how sexuality could be genetic only, as, when we are born we have only the basic ideas and we don't really know that much about the world, and we are taught about stuff. And early things such as play with freinds and so forth develops our view of the world. But it could easily have a gene that leave you open for other things whilst not determining precisley your sexuality. Hence this would leave it open to the possiblity of hetrosexual, homosexual, or bisexual, and depnding on how your upbringing shapes out, its who you are.

There are also those folks who now seem to think bisexual is fashionable... could this affect anything?

Former Member

Kentish wrote:

No, sir.

but not everyone believes in a God, so how can a bad thing be thinking you're higher than God, also, we don't need a 2000 year old book to tell us how to behave and what is moral or not, we get that thorugh interaction with each other, i know hitting a child on the head with a brick is wrong because it's likely to kill him, not because Jesus told everyone to treat their neighobur like themselves....

Former Member

Rich Kid wrote:

Animals are incapable of sin, they are not bestowed with the soul that resides in all human beings. They have behavioural choices some we humans would term natural, some unnatural, but I stress this is considering animal behaviour through human eyes, not altogether an accurate barometer as to animal normality.

Animals do homosexual behaviour...

Former Member

Dear Wendy wrote:

Now, please don't shoot me down. I am sincerely not trying to put anyone down, so I apologise in advance if my words will offend. It's not the intention.

Now, while revising (or rather learning for the first time) for the oh so exciting subject of geography my mind started wandering and I thought about why gays are gays?
I have been of the belief that there must be some sort of trauma or the like to expose it. Others say that it's just as random as what color hair you get born with. And hell, the Greek philosophers saw it as the most noble way of living (only men though).
Now, I got thinking, what does modern psychology tie it down to, today? Freud would probably say something along the lines of a childhood neurosis, which in some ways would probably match along great with my own theory. Just that he declares almost everything to be a result of a neurosis.

Any takes on this?

Homosexuality (in my opinion of course) has all kinds of causes. Some people are more genetically prone towards it, others have it as a character trait, others are gay because of sexual abuse, and still others are gay on a casual basis. In the end who really cares?

Former Member

Kentish wrote:

Really? Actually I think people need a slap because despite being capable of empathy, we rarely exhibit it in our actions. We are naturally selfish and self-serving (evolution tells us so).
Of course, the biblical message was more subtle than a slap but Jesus answers your questions directly. Seek and ye shall find.

These are human creations. Name one "bad thing" that isn't due to thinking man is better than God.

Oh dear Committing the naturalistic fallacy there. Precisely the reason why evolutionary psychology is a pretty useless method for understanding human behaviour.

Former Member

Too bad I don't have all the time in the world to debate this as I 'm genuinely interested.I guess I 'll throw in my opinion now and come back to it later.

SO...IMHO, sexual orientation is the result of choice.The problem with that statement is the choice in question(as many others influencing human behaviour) is not a conscious one.That is why most gay, bi people become offended when they hear that.I understand that but they should also understand that becoming offended by other people's opinions on the matter reveals a lot about the way they really feel about their sexual orientation.

Now with regards to that choice...well, I believe we all have a soul, a soul that evolves thru thousands of lifetimes here and on other planets...As we go along, we accrue karma(both ''good'' & ''bad'') or if you don't like that k word, you can say we gain many different experiences...In order to balance things out or be able to embrace the whole spectrum of the human experience, I feel the soul chooses to put itself thru the experience of homosexuality.

Moreover, the soul may have decided that it will challenge this choice(in this case homosexuality) at a certain point in its lifetime.In other instances, the soul may decide the complerte opposite.If it chooses the first scenario, then that person will either be confused about their homosexuality, go into therapy about it or attract a lot of people in their lives will will challenge his lifestyle...Eventually, they may even fall in love with a person of the opposite sex and ''settle down'' as straight.

In the case of the second scenario, the person will just accept and be comfortable with his sex life and just live life peacefully without much aggravation related to their homosexuality.People with that soul contract are usually people who are in a committed relationship with a person of the same sex and steer clear from the often superficial and ''trendy'' mainstream gay scene.

Also, sometimes a really advanced soul may incarnate as a homosexual to teach people around it some valuable life/love lessons(tolerance, acceptance, respect, freedom of expression etc).


The whole point about hormonal differences and even intersex individuals is also interesting in the sense that people with those characteristics have made a very powererful decision on the soul level...maybe I can elaborate on this point later-duty calls now!

Former Member

Totally un-related to the subject, but - I absolutely adore the name Milagro (though when I heard of it the first time it was Milagros, if I remember correctly)

Former Member

Milagro wrote:

Too bad I don't have all the time in the world to debate this as I 'm genuinely interested.I guess I 'll throw in my opinion now and come back to it later.

SO...IMHO, sexual orientation is the result of choice.The problem with that statement is the choice in question(as many others influencing human behaviour) is not a conscious one.That is why most gay, bi people become offended when they hear that.I understand that but they should also understand that becoming offended by other people's opinions on the matter reveals a lot about the way they really feel about their sexual orientation.

Now with regards to that choice...well, I believe we all have a soul, a soul that evolves thru thousands of lifetimes here and on other planets...As we go along, we accrue karma(both ''good'' & ''bad'') or if you don't like that k word, you can say we gain many different experiences...In order to balance things out or be able to embrace the whole spectrum of the human experience, I feel the soul chooses to put itself thru the experience of homosexuality.

Moreover, the soul may have decided that it will challenge this choice(in this case homosexuality) at a certain point in its lifetime.In other instances, the soul may decide the complerte opposite.If it chooses the first scenario, then that person will either be confused about their homosexuality, go into therapy about it or attract a lot of people in their lives will will challenge his lifestyle...Eventually, they may even fall in love with a person of the opposite sex and ''settle down'' as straight.

In the case of the second scenario, the person will just accept and be comfortable with his sex life and just live life peacefully without much aggravation related to their homosexuality.People with that soul contract are usually people who are in a committed relationship with a person of the same sex and steer clear from the often superficial and ''trendy'' mainstream gay scene.

Also, sometimes a really advanced soul may incarnate as a homosexual to teach people around it some valuable life/love lessons(tolerance, acceptance, respect, freedom of expression etc).


The whole point about hormonal differences and even intersex individuals is also interesting in the sense that people with those characteristics have made a very powererful decision on the soul level...maybe I can elaborate on this point later-duty calls now!

I don't believe in a soul, so all that just comes across as patronising nonsense.

Former Member

Blagsta wrote:

I don't believe in a soul, so all that just comes across as patronising nonsense.

I think that it is patronizing when you expect everyone else to consider your way of thinking as the absolute truth, while you're not willing to do the same for others, or even consider their point of view.

Former Member

Blagsta wrote:

I don't believe in a soul, so all that just comes across as patronising nonsense.

But then it would to you Blaggy, you're so one-dimensional. I read with interest the contribution from Milagro, and its good to see someone else who believes in the concept of a "soul" although I have to disagree with his fascinating idea of it travelling through thousands of lifetimes both here and elsehwere. I believe all of us have an individual soul that is unique to us and that will live eternally after the death of our human bodies.

Blaggy, I think its so sad to dismiss interesting ideas as - quote - "patronising nonsense", when someone who is not a regular contributor goes to the trouble of expounding a contrary but fascinating view.

An open mind is a wonderful thing .....

Former Member

If it is a choice, why do people choose it?

Former Member

Dear Wendy wrote:

I think that it is patronizing when you expect everyone else to consider your way of thinking as the absolute truth, while you're not willing to do the same for others, or even consider their point of view.

Eh? I was very careful to say that "I don't..." and "it comes across as..." not "souls don't exist" and "it is patronising...".

Former Member

Rich Kid wrote:

But then it would to you Blaggy, you're so one-dimensional. I read with interest the contribution from Milagro, and its good to see someone else who believes in the concept of a "soul" although I have to disagree with his fascinating idea of it travelling through thousands of lifetimes both here and elsehwere. I believe all of us have an individual soul that is unique to us and that will live eternally after the death of our human bodies.

Blaggy, I think its so sad to dismiss interesting ideas as - quote - "patronising nonsense", when someone who is not a regular contributor goes to the trouble of expounding a contrary but fascinating view.

An open mind is a wonderful thing .....

Careful with that open mind...yer brain fell out. You're assuming that I have come to my conclusions without a great deal of thought.

Former Member

bongbudda wrote:

If it is a choice, why do people choose it?

Why do people choose to use cannabis or cocaine? Why do some people choose to use sado-masochism as a form of sexual relief? Why do some people choose to be celibate?

Former Member

Rich Kid wrote:

Why do people choose to use cannabis or cocaine? Why do some people choose to use sado-masochism as a form of sexual relief? Why do some people choose to be celibate?

You are equating homosexuality to the use of recreational drugs?

Former Member

AllAmericanRageJunky wrote:

Homosexuality (in my opinion of course) has all kinds of causes. Some people are more genetically prone towards it, others have it as a character trait, others are gay because of sexual abuse, and still others are gay on a casual basis. In the end who really cares?

My good American buddy has put his finger, (if you'll pardon the expression), on it - who really cares? We're not solely defined by our sexuality, we're more than the sum of who we have sex with. I have nothing against queers, they're humans like the rest of us, and those I've met I've always found to be interesting, good people. Why are we putting their sexuality under the spotlight here when there are far more important things to discuss.
My only objection is the male homosexual act of buggery, that I find an abomination and a sin against God.

Former Member

Well you brought it up, so are you actually going to answer any of the questions about why you feel like that? I don't want this thread ruined because you refuse to answer why you make such a specific distinction again.

And that goes for everyone else, he refuses to answer a question, don't just keep repeating it or this thread will be closed.

Former Member

Rich Kid wrote:

My only objection is the male homosexual act of buggery, that I find an abomination and a sin against God.

Why only that, though? It seems a bit hypocritical to condemn only males and only one sex act between males.

Former Member

Rich Kid wrote:

My only objection is the male homosexual act of buggery, that I find an abomination and a sin against God.

So as long as they just gave each other oral it would be totally ok?

Former Member

Rich Kid wrote:

My only objection is the male homosexual act of buggery, that I find an abomination and a sin against God.

Do you find oral sex between a man and a woman an abomination and a sin against God?

Former Member

Of interest .....

http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/15129.htm

Former Member

Rich Kid wrote:

Of interest .....

http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/15129.htm

I've read it before, I don't think that answers my question though.

2.. We are to have sex only in marriage; one man with one woman. (Mt 19:4-5, 1 Ti 3:2 & 12)

So doesn't that prove my point? Surely you condemn both men and women if you go along this line? Why are you only condemning men, and only those men who have anal sex?

Former Member

So your answer is?

Former Member

Okay, I'd like to remind people that homophobic posts aren't permitted. Obviously queer is a word that has been used by some members of the gay community as a form of empowerment but I'm not entirely happy with it's use in a general context, especially in posts condemning gay men for their sexual behaviour. Enless there is a good reason to use it I think we'll see a more constructive debate by avoiding the more emotive terms.

Former Member

Can I just point out, for the biblical record. Even if you want to completely ignore any reference the bible makes toward homosexuality. It's very clear on sex outside marriage, so in the same way it is just as "wrong" (if you like) for a man and a woman to have sex outside marriage (including any sexual act, ie oral sex) as it is for a man and a man to have sex outside of marriage. Even if you dismiss any comment on homosexuality, they can't get married, so they shouldn't be having sex.

Former Member

i believe that you are born gay, i think one theory could be that you are reincarnated into the wrong body. i'm not a religious person but think it will in time be explained scientifically.

Former Member

Fiend_85 wrote:

Even if you dismiss any comment on homosexuality, they can't get married, so they shouldn't be having sex.

In a bid to get better understanding from the Bible's textures, in a few years gay people will be able to marry. But this doesn't make gay people ok to have sex, because buggery is a sin right? So in actualy fact it would make no difference whether they are married or not? And does it just include buggery or does it condone any sexual act? Just intruiged.

Former Member

Well, the bible says that marriage is between a man and a woman, so even if you had legally binding civil unions, it wouldn't be biblically correct. I am continuing to avoid biblical commentry on actual homosexuality, for the record.