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Majority what? Majority humans? Or the majority in a particular country/state/culture? How is that majority maintained? How is that particular view enforced? How is it transmitted? How was it created? Who stands to gain/lose? You're asking simplistic questions of complex issues.
At the moment, the majority view seems to be that greed, "rugged individualism" and capitalism are right. I certainly don't agree with that.
do they have an influence in how any given human behaves, or should i say in how they relate to certain behaviour....
There is a vague global moral standard which arises naturally. As organisms with consciousness, we have an instinctive understanding of morality in evolutionary terms - as lifeforms, our instinct is to protect life where possible for example.
Culture, through religion etc, often tailors and adapts this morality.
I don't know if this is what you're getting at when you're talking about the majority...but the moral majority (a very vague generalisation i must say) derive their morality from a combination of cultural factors and natural instinct.
no because humans should be able to define their mprality through personal experience and not what somebody else says they should deifne it as...and i believe most do, i live in a Christain society, i'm supposed to act a certain way, i don't...
imho, that would depend on what those morals are.
BTW turlough, you're not a christian, so can't be held to christian standards, by the nature of this debate.
Why?
ETA: to make it clear (sorry I'm trying to revise for a major exam tomorrow) why does it matter what the majority hold? if the majority agree, isn't that what the standard is? Why do you have the right to disagree because you're different?
of course because societies through personal experience have realised that killing is wrong, you wouldn't want to be murdered so therefore it is wrong...so yes murder is wrong, it gets complicated when people murder for a cause, i.e Iraq, thats where it gets fucked up and things like religion and materialism influence someone's morality...
This is where the harm principles comes into play.
Obviously murder is not acceptable, it contradicts our collective instinct as conscious organisms.
Switch the example to other end of the scale - is it right for someone caught with a small amount of drugs to go to jail or be forced on a rehabilitation scheme because of a morality forged through dogma?
You can't - or at least, shouldn't - just just accept the moral standard of your own society blindly. Basic moral standards - don't kill, don't rape - are necessary, others however - derived from cultural/religious/politcal influence - are often tainted with corruption and foolishness and should not be accepted.
If human life is valued so highly by humanity at large, why do so many societies and people individually think that it is acceptable to end it based on some other moral precept? If the people who thought other moral guidelines were more important than life were the majority, would they be correct, would they be correct if they were a minority? If they were the majority and you disagreed would you be wrong, would you be wrong if they were a minority?
And, why is ending someone's life so important? there isn't an afterlife, we didn't come from anywhere, in comparision to the solar system which has a predicted life of 10 billion years, what do the handful of decades we live matter? Why do we live at all? Why do we grieve the passing of a random collection of atoms?
So all humans then discounting culture, history, power etc? I think that all humans are broadly similar, yes.
Now you're contradicting yourself. Do you want me to take culture, history, power etc into account or not?
I'm not. These are complex issues that can't be addressed without thinking about culture, history, power etc. All human interaction takes place in a particular context.
why grieve over a bunch of atoms, because we also a bunch aotms who have the ability to empathize with other bunch of atoms, religion plays no part in my moral code, why does it play a part in yours, you don't need a book to tell you killing someone is wrong because you know it is wrong because you wouldn't want it happening to you...it's your ability to observe and relate to a situation where you get your morals from...well in my case anyway...
btw i've already stated that it's when someone believes in other bullshit that makes murder acceptable then things get complicated..
i think you're missing the point...i've said it twice, would you like and axe taken to your head, nope, obviously, so therefore taking an axe to someone else's head is wrong, we don't know how we got here or why we are here but we're here to make the most of it and i believe somewhere every human feels that sentiment, thats why, and a tree can't cry, a tree can't lose a family, can't lose a spouse when an axe cuts him down, a human can...thats why...
Its a product of biological evolution. Survival of the species is surely a basic instinct, and to kill without purpose surely contradicts that basic instinct?
People end the lives of others for various reasons - cultural influences on morality (people killing for a religion, for a flag), the advancement of the self/social group, for the greater good...etc etc.
Can you give me an example of such a moral precept which does not have a religious basis?
An opinion does not become "right" because it is held by a majority, nor does an opinion become "wrong" because it is held by a minority.
Ok, so it's wrong to kill me, because it hurts me, and would hurt my family. Why does that matter to you? Why do my family see any worth in my life? What makes humanity so special?
do i really have to say it a fourth time, empathy, i mightn't have any biological tie with your family but i'd have an emotional one if the situation arose where i had the choice to hit you on the head with an axe or not...have you not got it yet?
Survival of our species is obviously a greater instinctive force than concern for a tree - although as another living thing, human concern for other life forms is also naturally instinctive.
Kierkegaard would disagree. The majorities rule = ethics, and is not the state of mind which he promotes as it is simply following the stream and not taking a conscious decision.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
yeh but he was a christain so bound to be wrong
I have a feeling your argument is about the develop thus - we cannot find a reason which makes humanity so special (something you consider people taking for granted) so we must attribute this instrintive feeling to god?
Yes? No?
Just because you're too dense to understand any of this, no need to be sarcy about it.
You don't have to answer me, because really I am wholly convinced of intelligent design when it comes to the universe and everything in it. So there is little point actually debating, but what I have been interested in, is challenging something that most people never consider. What makes humans so special?
Anyway, on that note. I'm done, I hope you really do think about it. I'm not going to come back to this thread, it's FAR too long, but if you have something you'd similarly like me to think about, that you geniuinly think I've failed to consider (and remember, despite blagsta's near endless insults, every question I have been asked and more I have had to consider and answer satisfactorily on a complex and advanced level for myself and others to) I'd love to hear about it, so do PM me.
yea was thinking that myself, i am a frim believer that even if tere is God, we are the masters of our own destiny and don't need some mythological figure to complensate for the mystery of life...
Nothing makes us "so special". We think we're so special because our instinct tells us so - it's nothing more than the evolutionary drive to ensure survival of species. Look at the animal kingdom - different species organising themselves together in societies, working for the common benefit of their kind. Just as we do. They don't have conscious thought, but their instrinct drives their actions, just as our instincts drive our thoughts & actions in this regard.
That's a a classic example of backing down when your arguments don't stand up to scrutiny...
*yawn*
If you've made you're mind up, why bother? You have avoided questions, obfuscated, wilfully misunderstood, repeatedly denied that I have answered questions when I have at least 10 times and generally behaved exactly like the narrow minded zealot that you are. You're exactly why I think religion is stupid.