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let's blame the rape victim

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote: »

    Thanks for link. I hope they launch a clearer campaign without the mixed messages.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Its tough, because from the point of view of the fuzz, they don't want people drinking to excess anyway.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote: »
    Its tough, because from the point of view of the fuzz, they don't want people drinking to excess anyway.

    Yeah I agree. But it seems lazy and unnecessary to throw rape into their 'drink responsibly' message.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think only people who haven't experienced rape would have liked the campaign.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Randomgirl wrote: »
    I think only people who haven't experienced rape would have liked the campaign.

    I haven't experienced rape and hated the campaign.

    It's just difference of opinions but do think it has been underestimated in this debate how damaging the messages in this campaign are to victims of rape and sexual assault.
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    I still can't think of a way to say the same thing without risk of bothering somebody traumatised. Let's hope they can.
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    Fiend_85 wrote: »
    This kind of thing is good as a joke, but I sincerely doubt even one person who could potentially do any of these things would be dissuaded by reading it.
    Don't tell Dora that, but saying "Don't steal, thief" doesn't prevent thefts.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well I think everyone is pleased with the outcome here :) personally, lets get on to talking about much nicer subjects. Really enjoying the olympics!!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :confused:okay
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :confused:okay

    I was just frustrated with the huge amount of kneejerk this topic brings up.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    I was just frustrated with the huge amount of kneejerk this topic brings up.

    Better than being a society that isn't bothered, surely?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    When you have one room of people who sit down and just read, not talking, and another room of people who just shout, with the loudest being the only that can be heard, I'd rather save my ears. The thing is, you can probably tell, we all care about this issue. It hits home in a very deep way whether you are a man or a woman.

    I probably shouldn't have posted what I did, but since it's an emotive topic it got the better of me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think anyone is 'shouting'? It seems to have turned more into a discussion now than a debate. If this topic makes you uncomfortable it doesn't give you the right to tell everyone to stop and talk about the olympics.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That campaign was all wrong, legislation around the topic is really far from being where it should, everyone has an opinion that is, of corse the right one. But- isn't it a good thing? That everyone's trying so hard, cares enough to shout about it? I'd much rather live in a society where a controversial ad campaign sparks a debate like this than in a society where no-one bothered in the first place. We address rape and we work to prevent it prosecute it and support victims of it. You can't say that everywhere. Shout as loud as you bloody well can.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think anyone is 'shouting'? It seems to have turned more into a discussion now than a debate. If this topic makes you uncomfortable it doesn't give you the right to tell everyone to stop and talk about the olympics.

    I didn't say that though did I? I'm saying, mission accomplished, someone tried to put a difficult message out there, and were brow beaten put in their place. Naughty police, making campaigns about crime. How dare they.
    That campaign was all wrong, legislation around the topic is really far from being where it should, everyone has an opinion that is, of corse the right one. But- isn't it a good thing? That everyone's trying so hard, cares enough to shout about it? I'd much rather live in a society where a controversial ad campaign sparks a debate like this than in a society where no-one bothered in the first place. We address rape and we work to prevent it prosecute it and support victims of it. You can't say that everywhere. Shout as loud as you bloody well can.

    All wrong, but at least a step in the right direction? The only 'accepted' campaigns about rape are the most painless ones. The ones where we just pretend it's monsters hiding in cupboards and the only way to stop that is to root them out and hang them up by their testicles, to exclude men from anywhere women might feel vulnerable, essentially just pandering to a stranger danger paranoia. We haven't got to the point yet where we can address the brutal realities of this crime because it's too upsetting.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    We haven't got to the point yet where we can address the brutal realities of this crime because it's too upsetting.
    Strongly disagree.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I thought this campaign was good. http://thisisabuse.direct.gov.uk/videos/view/11
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Evenstar wrote: »
    Strongly disagree.

    I disagree with you. I put forward a personal experience and what I think is a good example of why people should be careful about how much they drink, and all of a sudden I'm an apologist for rapists everywhere.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not calling anyone an apologist or anyone overly harsh, I'm just trying to say that its good that we talk about this stuff, in whatever medium
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I thought this campaign was good. http://thisisabuse.direct.gov.uk/videos/view/11

    I agree.
    I'm not calling anyone an apologist or anyone overly harsh, I'm just trying to say that its good that we talk about this stuff, in whatever medium

    I do agree, I just wish that there wasn't shouting down of campaigns like this one. There are some extremely vocal movements that unfortunately do stifle debate in this area.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I do agree, I just wish that there wasn't shouting down of campaigns like this one. There are some extremely vocal movements that unfortunately do stifle debate in this area.

    There's criticism of this campaign because it's a really bad one. It obviously got enough criticism for it to be removed and hopefully replaced with one that doesn't give out really mixed messages to both victim and perpetrator. This isn't about stifling debate. I would argue that is what you're trying to do here.

    As for 'painless' campaigns. No idea which one you're referring to but if it in anyway differs fromt this campaign's message of teaching people not to get raped instead of teaching people not to rape then I'm all for it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think it was really bad. It was alright, not perfect, but it was sending a good message about self-awareness and self-control. It's just that there was also an undertone of blame.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In an ideal world you could stop anyone from ever becoming a rapist - however, we live in a world that's a long way from that place. There are nasty people hiding in dark corners for a certain person whi have spent weeks planning their attack, and there are arseholes who get drunk and take advantage and do things that they would never have done sober. Then there's all the ones in-between, the moment the deed is done they're all rapists.

    Rape is an ugly topic, there's no changing that, but I don't see how trying to reduce the risk all around can possibly be a bad thing. Clearly, others disagree with me, but to me a hard hitting, uncomfortable campaign that points out to some if the dimwits the risky position they are putting themselves in should be praised. Personally I'm impressed that the force had the balls to do it, just a shame they've been beaten down.

    In an ideal world, you'd never need to wear a seatbelt in a car - but we do to reduce the risk, and there's no criticism of campaigns encouraging people to do so. Rape is a more emotive topic, but the principle is the same.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rape is an ugly topic, there's no changing that, but I don't see how trying to reduce the risk all around can possibly be a bad thing. Clearly, others disagree with me, but to me a hard hitting, uncomfortable campaign that points out to some if the dimwits the risky position they are putting themselves in should be praised. Personally I'm impressed that the force had the balls to do it, just a shame they've been beaten down.

    I agree with you. I think the ads were perhaps worded a little clumsily, but the message was a valid one.

    Any hard-hitting campaign about violent crime is going to upset people who have been victims of that crime, and I can't see a way to avoid that without watering down the message. 'Say no to strangers' would upset you beyond words if your child was abducted and killed by a stranger. Does it mean that the killer was less at fault because the child didn't run away screaming? Obviously not, and I don't know many people who would argue that they were.

    In an ideal world we'd all be able to leave our doors unlocked, and accept a lift from a kindly stranger and walk where we want when we want in any state of inebriation, but it's not an ideal world. You'll never stop the offenders from offending, but something we can do is try our best to protect our property, protect our possessions and protect ourselves. And protecting yourself includes not going out and getting totally shitfaced without anyone to look out for you.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think I'm coming around to Clementine's way of thinking on this one. Clearly, you need to take responsibility for yourself and your own safety, but using the term 'regret' doesn't sit right. Is regret what someone should be feeling after being raped? That doesn't feel right at all. It feels like the victim is being asked to take some responsibility for the rape.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think I'm coming around to Clementine's way of thinking on this one. Clearly, you need to take responsibility for yourself and your own safety, but using the term 'regret' doesn't sit right. Is regret what someone should be feeling after being raped? That doesn't feel right at all. It feels like the victim is being asked to take some responsibility for the rape.

    I'm with you on that. But how would you change the phrasing?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think the intention was to suggest people regret putting themselves in a position where they are particularly vulnerable, not that they would regret being raped.

    I thought that was obvious in spite of the clumsy wording, but maybe it isn't?
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