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Essential support for under 25s
Essential support for under 25s
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They don't, at least the majority don't. But no-one seems to be able to grasp it.
And i've been one of those kids hanging around in the street doing absolutely nothing wrong. It's a public place and nobody has the right to try and get me to move on if I'm doing nothing wrong. You are assuming that every young person is guilty of something or potentially a yob.
It scares me that we have attitudes liek your workign for the police. Your meant to be protecting people's rights and freedoms. I gather you don't think that applies to young people.
That's not the point. During the summer holidays as kids we'd be out in the streets till late, not causing damaging any property, just sitting around and having a laugh - there was fuck all else too do.
You'd still get moaning old cunts who'd be better off in the ground coming out and trying to get us to move on. They just didn't liek the idea of us being there. Fuck em. We had every right to be there.
Because my mates and I had nothing better to do. It's beside the point though, because I had as much right to be there as anybody else.
So you don't give a fuck about the rights of others, just as long as you feel safe. Lets treat all muslims as terrorists, all blacks as gun toting gang members, and all gypsies as scum sall we?
You can't punish inncocent yoouths for a minority that misbehave.
Where the fuck did I say that I assume every person who hangs around to be a yob? Why is it, that whenever I write something, someone here will deliberately or wilfully put everything i've written out of context? You assume that everytime I see a group of kids I march up to them, clip them around the ear and tell them to fuck off, regardless of what they might have been doing. I've been doing my job for a long time now, and I have an excellent idea of what makes a yob. A group of kids hanging around playing football or chatting aren't yobs. A group of kids hanging around, drinking, chucking bricks at windows and laying booby traps on roads for police cars, are yobs.
Unless you've taken
To actually mean that i despise all people under the age of 25, I suggest you re read what i've been writing and rethink what you're going to reply with.
But this noise contraption makes no distinction. That's the point.
You agree that we should punish people for doing something wrong not because they might then? Because I can't see how this gizmo fits into that.
You suport the limited use of this gizmo against young people hanging around in the streets. That's certainly what it comes across as.
The worst thing is people like you wanting to punish 'innocent loving people' for being nothing more than youthful.
Seriously you'd be happy restricting all young people's movement for crimes commited by a minority?
I support the use of the device on people who are causing problems, and from what i've experienced the well behaved kids don't hang around outside the houses of other people. If they don't hang around outside someone else's house causing problems then it won't affect them.
And by problems I don't mean playing football or sitting quietly and chatting, I mean swearing, throwing beer bottles e.t.c. in their garden.
I used to hang around on the street as well with my friends, but we behaved ourselves. We played football, rode bikes e.t.c. and then when we were old enough we found out about girls and started chasing them around instead.
That is my experience, and the experience of countless other people who have grown up into well adjusted adults.
The groups i'm talking about were somehow not present when lessons on right and wrong were handed out and have substituted good citizenship for hanging around on a street corner, getting drunk and harassing passersby.
It's the police's responsibility to sort them out when they do, but we can't be everywhere at once unfortunately.
And what's to prevent peope using it all the time, against those who'd done nothing wrong?
When youths are causing trouble you call the police who I'd hope would only move on those that are causing trouble.
And if not, what's the difference between the two scenarios?
And if kids want to hang around in a terraced street where some cunts got one of these? It makes no distinction between those doing nothing wrong and those misbehaving, it's violates the rights of movement for young people, and who's going to make sure it's used responsibly againsty only those causing trouble?
If a kids doing something wrong you call the police, no different than if any other member of society was causing trouble. It's for the police to deal with criminal activity not the public.
My priorities would lie in preventing the inncocent being treated as guillty and protecting the freedoms of those who can't yet vote.
Why not if they're doing nothing wrong?
This is besides the point. I'm talking about the rights of those who've done nothing wrong. This gizmo makes no distinction.
I'm getting the feeling you think every kid is a yob?
Much easier that way eh?
It's relevant so why not answer it?
It's OK to descriminate against young people is the message I'm getting from you.
That's not strictly true. We've arrested the same people god only knows how many times, but the courts keep releasing them or the CPS keep refusing remand so they are bailed.
And what's to stop it being missused? And 'normal youths' might want to hang aroudn there for a while - and why shoudln't they?
You mean they won't do anything unless they are actually casuing trouble? Isn't that the way it should be?
Brixton has also got crime spots- and much of the crime is commited by black people, whether it is black-on-black crime or else.
All of that fits exactly the same criteria as what you were proposing for restricting the movements of youngsters in certain areas.
So would you advocate restricting the movements of black people in Brixton?
Stop trying to twist it mate, the topic is about a speaker that discourages people from hanging around outside your house and smashing your stuff not about restricting people's movements.
You on the other hand appear to be advocating discriminating against everyone of a certain age because of the actions of a few.
Sorry I must have missed the bit where it said this gizmo only effects kids that have been drinkign and casuing trouble. Bollocks mate. This contraption makes no distinction.
The point is that many well behaved kids hang around socialising with each other outside too, and with this box you're compramising their rights just so that you can prevent the misbehavior of the minority.
What's to stop anybody putting up this device anwhere and using when they want against who they want. This device is aimed at peventing freedom of movement for a particular age group, that's the issue. In much the same way a curfew does. And it's for that reason why this device is wrong.
If somebody's doing something wrong you call the old bill.
Does this box work anyway. Won't troublesome kids just move on somewhere else and cause grief? You got a device hear that punishes kids whether they're casuing trouble or not, and it probably wouldn't work anyway. It's shit idea.
I wouldn't.
But in many areas statistics show that black youths are responsible for high percentage of crime.
Would you be opposed to a curfew on black youths in these areas?
It does actually. The one i've seen in operation on some guys house had the desired effect. They've been around for 2/3 years now.
Can't you see the relevance?
You call that a little discrimination?
Again I'm gettign the feeling that you think the majority of kids are antisocial?
No you can't. That doesn't make much sense.
There is little discrimination involved. Discriminating against all black people would be exempt on the grounds that approximatly a fucking lot of black people in hotspots who hang around shops are dangerous.
Would you agree with the above statement then in areas where the majority of crime outside is committed by black people? And therefore if there was a sonic deterrent that only worked on them that it'd be ok to use?
Read what I said again. How do you know they didn't move on somewhere else and cause trouble.
Makign kids move isn't somewhere else to cause trouble isn't any good is it? Cutting down youth crime is the answer. Do these boxes do that?
I very much doubt it.
And do you not see not ALL young people are yobs too. Whether it be discriminating on age or race, what is the difference? Can you not see the point?
Exactly. I can't believe that you can't see the parallel between ageism and racism Matt. It's obvious, and I think your initial refusal to answer Aladdin's question speak volumes.
Oh, and just a quick point. The idea of only turning them on when people are causing trouble, as Whowhere suggested, defeats your entire argument. If by Matt's description, they are tame enough to be fine for a baby to hear, then they are certainly not effective enough to prevent an already escalated situation. And nor are they designed to. They are designed to prevent young people from going near the area in the first place, and by definition, therefore, are designed to treat all young people as potential troublemakers before they've even committed the terrible crime of hanging around. If they are distressing enough to deter such a situation, then they have no place in an area where children might be.
Read what I've said. You know full well this device is used againts those not causing trouble. It's used againts kids in general.
Who says it's just going to be used by shops? WhoWhere was arguing for it's use in residential areas.
There right to protection from criminal acts everybody has in this country. But this doesn't mean that the freedom of movement for over 20% of the population (those under 16) should be comprimised. There's certainly no right for those over 25 to have little black boxes installed all over the place to keep kids away. Don't be so ridiculous.
You said it yourself. There are well behaved children everywhere, and they have right to go anywhere they want in public without being descriminated against.
There are? Where?
If it's an late at night and they're being troublesome it should do, and if it doesn't that's a problem with the legal system not an excuse to install boxes everywhere. If somebody simply doens't like the fact that kids are hanging around outside yet doing nothing wrong it's their problem.
Does it cut crime? Does it do the job the police ought to be doing. No.
:banghead:
Why is it ok in your mind to descriminate against youths but not ok to descriminate against blacks?