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Davis: Multiculturalism is outdated.
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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I'm sure Mr Davis would take up India or China's culture if he moved to one of these places then. Unlikely in my books.
I pretty much stopped paying too much attention when i read:
and
He's managed to take something as obvious as making the effort to fit into your new country and turn it into an offensive load of drivel.
So presumably Trevor Phillips, the head of the CRE, is a discriminatory bigot too?
Presumably Ann Cryer is a racist bigot too, is she?
Odd how you don't condemn them isn't it, Renzo?
The fact is that Davis, like Phillips before him, has a point. When in Rome do as the Romans do- and many people from ethnic minorities don't appear to do that. Which is why, even now, we have forced marriages, female circumcision, and large-scale voter fraud in many ethnic areas.
Pointing this out doesn't make someone a racist bigot. Pretending that it does means that the far-right loonies can capitalise on this very real point.
Excuse my ignorance but....er....who....and what?
I wonder how many Tories have been arguing against multiculturalism over dinner with friends while munching on a curry. :rolleyes:
How long before the Tories' suggest darkies start taking Norman Tebbit's 'cricket test'?
About six months ago Trevor Philips said the same thing Davis did, without a murmur. It said so in the article you posted.
Multiculturalism doesn't work, and the term should be abolished. If the CRE is saying it its a bit odd for you to start condemning the Tories for saying exactly the same thing.
To aid your memory:
Philips calls for "core of Britishness"
CRE block funding to groups that don't promote Britishness
Well, I'd hate to be pedant, but wasn't Tikka Masala invented purely for the British ruling class in the Raj? It's hardly multicultural, unless you think Imperialism was.
Leaving aside pedantry, what a nonsensical comment. Importing things from other cultures doesn't make something "multicultural" in the common usage of the term. Me eating a curry on a Friday night make me no more multicultural than eating a KFC makes me Texan.
What on earth is wrong with that?
Presumably all Asians should convert to Christianity, have scones and cream in village tearooms, drink warm lager and watch football- so to fit in with the rest of people living in this mythical and idyllic land known as Middle England we keep hearing about...
And before someone mentions it, is not about an immigrant learning English when they move here- which they should do incidentally. It is about people retaining their own identity and culture.
But if Indians- and countless other ethnic groups- had sought to adapt immediately to British culture (whatever that might be) upon arrival then one of the things they should have done is to renounce their cuisine and adapt to the British one.
Isn't that what it boils down to for many of the critics of multiculturalism? Foreigners settling in here and retaining their foreign culture and identity, rather than replacing everything they knew with the British equivalent?
Totally comical. How do you leave what isn't there in the first place?
A three word lie. Politics is great sin't it. Almost 100% utter fiction masquerading as truth. Some good conjuntions and adverbs though.
Oh the geography's there, the borders which enable you to encase a certain area and name it aren't. Therefore "Bitiain" is in your head and nowhere else. This was called being delusional when I was a lad.
Shame you equate the word with the ground, isn't it?
Nope, I'd be on the first plane out;)
Multiculturalism, for me, is not about tolerating different cultures, and taking the best bits from them all, it is about condoning anything that anybody does so long as they claim it is "part of their culture".
Taking the best bits from new influences is how society progresses and gets better. Condoning and ignoring every bad thing because it is someone's "culture" is terrible, and the term multiculturalism has come to mean the latter not the former.
It is because of the latter that good people like Ann Cryer get condemned as racists for daring to criticise the Asian community for its appalling misogyny, particularly towards young white women, and its tolerance of barbaric things like female circumcision and forced marriage.
Davis isn't saying that everyone should drink ale and eat roast beef, he is quite categoric about that. He is saying that if you move to Britain there are certain norms you must subscribe to- not mutilating your daughter and then forcing her to marry someone against her will being one of them. I am well aware that most Muslims do not do the former, but the communities do turn a blind eye to it- it wouldn't happen if they didn't. The latter is still a huge problem, and it is what Ann Cryer meant by "importing poverty".
I don't see what is wrong with saying that if you move to Britain you have to agree to the moral norms of the country. This works both ways, I note the Grauniad carefully ignored Davis' comments saying its about time the white racists learned how to behave like people too.
Coming from a country where the divisions between us led to policemen being shot dead in the street and people being firebombed out of their house because they had a Catholic surname I actually think integration is a rather good idea
Though of course this is totally ignoring the point that there is no 'british' way of life at all. I have easily as much in common with a Glasgow resident than I do my Romanian neighbors, more probably.
The French hugonaughts (sp?) were the biggest mass immigration this countries ever had, no one complains about them not fitting in.
Oops!
Same for pain I guess... being as it's not physical matter... so presumably it'd be perfectly legal and okay for someone to torture you, seeing as pain doesn't really exist.
Both pain and thoughts have a physical presence, they are either based on chemical changes in the brain or electrical charges, both of which have a physical presence.
Thoughts don't necessarily have physical presence. There is merely brain-activity that appears to coincide with thoughts. That tends to apply only to very simple things like emotions anyway.
Hope you all bear with me here- I was simply addressing klintock's statements that countries somehow "don't exist".
Mucj as I hate agreeing with Klintock about anything the fact we have thoughts about something does n't mean they exist. I could have thoughts about dragons, but it doesn't proove the existence of dragons.
Not that I agree with Klintock - it seems self evident to me that there is a state called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The fact that you can't touch it like you can a table and say this is the UK doesn't really seem to be evidence to me.
Good luck with trying though.
Aladdin, I would expect a better argument from you than this!
I would rather NOT have Chicken Tikka than run the risk of being blown up on a tube by "British" suicide bombers who accept the hospitality and freedom of speech in this country - then turn and bite the hand that feeds.
The Muslim community had from 9/11 to start dealing with these people in their ranks but have only now have accepted that they (the hate-expousing extremists who hang around the doors of mosques) are, indeed, a thorn in the side of the moderate Muslim community.
How often do you hear from, say, the Chinese community that they are being 'discriminated' against in such a vocal way? Yet they continue to pursue their lives and religon very peacefully within British Society. A fine example of integration!
What is the 'British way of life'? When our country has been built on conquests, invasions and immigration from the start. Not even our language is pure and these days many Brits would happily tuck in to non British dishes (Indian, Chinese, Thai, Nepalise ect), go out and take part in karaoke nights down the pub. We use technology that was neither created or manufactured in the UK that has enhanced our life. We smoke tobacco which is not native to the united kingdom, a great deal of our music is American and we pay out money every month to get hundreds of TV channels and fill the pockets of an Australian born fat cat...
So really, there aren't a great deal of 'British' things to do... Very little 'British' culture left really. Our streets are full of Starbucks and MacDonalds, our clothes shops are full of fashions that are made in sweatshops in China, even the meat and potatoes on our Sunday dinner are unlikely to be British.
So what have these people got to conform to? What have they got to respect? Obviously, with issues such as arranged marriage and domestic violence (that goes on in white Christian families too), yes they aren't the done thing in the UK as well as female circumcision which still goes on. It would benefit these people to learn to speak English although most immigrants I've personally met do speak it well enough to get around. And then there is the odd religious extremists who will be in the absolute minority... But would he be any worse than an anti-capitalist? Or a person who protests outside abortion clinics? They're criticising our way of life of course.
Personally, I don't believe 'British culture' exists as a purely white Christian phenomenom anymore and I would say that both minority groups and British natives should respect the human rights act more than anything, not a 'culture' that has evolved (or devolved, you choose) to be a pick and mix of other cultures, superstores and religions.
Um .. no ... I didn't word that part very well ... but you seemed to imply that Chicken Tikka was the foremost advantage of multiculturalism ....
Multiculturalism is one of the three worst tragedys to happen to this island in it's modern history. The victims of multiculturalism are of cause, the immigrants themselves who nearly always end up in dilapidated and isolated ghettos, hidden beneth the Labour partys towering slums and derilict mass housing flats. I wonder now, after another ghastly left wing social experiment has collapsed, what they might try next.
>sigh< Why the metaphysical horseshit? At no point did I say that the ground isn't there, only that it can never be "britain".
Lets take an example. Look into the night sky, you will see lots of twinkly lights. Men have grouped them together under different names "the great bear" "the plough" etc. Do you really think their is a relationship between those groups of stars other than what we decide?
Take another example. The contract between the kings and queens of then "england" and "scotland" were never drawn up and we still have people believing in differing borders, backing up their delusions with equal force on either side of the fence. Does "britain" exist now that it hasn't been drawn up and acted upon? No, of course not. The ground will still be there in the physical world of course, it doesn't give a shit what you call it or how you pretend it's divided up.
Legally of course, you weren't a party to that contract and so it should have no power over you whatsoever.
What you are doing is making a category error, I think.
Cool, what's that evidence and when ahd where did you come by it?
Does property exist?
Not really though, does it?
So let's be practical. Since 59,999,999 people in Britain says it exists (not to mention 5,939,999,999 other people in the world) and one person says it doesn't, I say it does.
Sorry mate. Tyranny of the majority and all...
No need to answer that by the way...