Benefits etc

24

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Benefit fraud isn't just stealing from tax payers, as strange as that sounds. I've been guilty of it in the past, because I spent a few hours a week volunteering in a school helping kids who found reading difficult. I believed I'd be stealing from the tax payer if I didn't do something useful while I was on benefits but if you're on job seekers allowence you aren't allowed to volunteer or do a course because you have to be available to start work at a moments notice, whether you have the skills and experience needed or not. The system is insane, because you can't get help with paying rent if you work part time, so basically you have to work full time or do absolutely nothing. That's fine for the short term, but if you follow the rules and have been unable to find a full time job, you could be doing nothing for years.
    I think working part time and not telling anyone is probably the lesser of the evils in many cases, because you're more likely to end up with a full time job, off benefits and paying taxes again. When it comes to benefits though, pride does not come into it. You can't feel a sense of pride when you have to ask others for money, whatever the reason. All you can do is your best, and in many cases that's seen as benefit fraud.
    You can do voluntary work whilst claiming benefits.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes you can, if you're claiming something like income support where it's recognised that you can't start work this minute if you have the chance to. If you're on job seekers allowence you can't have any kind of comitment, whether that's voluntary work, a course, caring responsibilities, illness or visting a relative who's in hospital. I've almost had my benefits cut or stopped for all of those reasons, and had to stop immediately.
    I don't think it's often a case of being better off on benefits, it's more that you can't live on the money you'd make from a part time job, because if you work part time you don't get help with the cost of housing, so you wouldn't be able to work without borrowing money to pay for rent and not eating. I can see why people with other respsonibilites, like children, live off benefits for a few years. I think what's important is what they cost the system in general, not just the benefits system. If a single parent isn't working, but cooks healthy meals and helps their children with their homework so they end up in a well paid job and don't need much health care, they would save as much or more money than they take.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hellfire wrote: »
    Woa... so why don't we all quit our jobs and live of benefits?

    because most people cant live on the sort of low income that being on benefits provides
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hellfire wrote: »
    Woa... so why don't we all quit our jobs and live of benefits?

    because we're able to get better paid jobs than they are.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Big Gay wrote: »
    because we're able to get better paid jobs than they are.

    I've constantly been told that I'd get more in benefits if I quit my job, and im on 14k per year.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think whether or not you have children makes a big difference, especially if they're young and you could get income support rather than jobseekers allowence, because I think income support is a bit more. I get £50, and what really annoys me is the people I see at the job centre who can afford to smoke because they're getting child benefit. I can't see how benefits would add up to 14k a year, but I don't know the system.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hellfire wrote: »
    I've constantly been told that I'd get more in benefits if I quit my job, and im on 14k per year.

    But if you work you will (hopefully) progress up the pay ladder whereas if you aer on benefits it's easy to get stuck.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Randomgirl wrote: »
    But if you work you will (hopefully) progress up the pay ladder whereas if you aer on benefits it's easy to get stuck.

    Well actually No.. I am on my top pay grade for my job, if I do not change job I'll stick at this.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think whether or not you have children makes a big difference, especially if they're young and you could get income support rather than jobseekers allowence, because I think income support is a bit more. I get £50, and what really annoys me is the people I see at the job centre who can afford to smoke because they're getting child benefit. I can't see how benefits would add up to 14k a year, but I don't know the system.

    The rates are the same; but those over 25 get more than those under 25 - this is just wrong!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Big Gay wrote: »
    because we're able to get better paid jobs than they are.

    What about people who aren't? Some people will work a minimum wage job their whole lives. Why should they work when they would most likely be better off on benefits?

    I understand that some people can't work and need to be supported and I am perfectly happy for my taxes (yawn, I know) to provide that support. And also that some people don't earn very much and need extra a bit extra to get by, and I'm happy for my taxes to provide that extra help too. But why should it be an option for people to just not work cause they can't be bothered? I know that these people are the minority, but they're not exactly a rarity, and I think this is the main reason that people get so passionate about this issue.

    Yes, that's a failing of the system, but does that make it ok?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But, is it just that they can't be bothered, or that they can't be bothered to work hard to make someone else rich whilst they earn a pittance?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    But, is it just that they can't be bothered, or that they can't be bothered to work hard to make someone else rich whilst they earn a pittance?

    Oh bollocks, that doesn't come into it, "I refuse to work and claim benefits because I don't want to make someone else rich" What a load of crap,

    Kaff hit it on the head there, the main problem is those in a minority, but as she said it isn't rare a lot of people do it, Katralla, you seem very passionate about "making others rich" I find it hilariously funny you seem to think it is okay for people not to work because others get rich from it. lol.... yet it is okay just to live on hand-me-outs
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    But, is it just that they can't be bothered, or that they can't be bothered to work hard to make someone else rich whilst they earn a pittance?

    Isn't that the case for a lot of people, though? Including people who we'd be a bit shafted without (healthcare assistants, bin men, bus drivers, factory workers, nursery nurses, etc, etc). They generally don't earn a great deal above minimum wage, in sometimes tough conditions, and for people who do a lot less work than them for a lot more money.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So, if those people would be better off on benefits, I think that is a viable option.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    So, if those people would be better off on benefits, I think that is a viable option.

    Except, if all of them were on benefits, who would keep funding the benefits?

    In my experience, the more money someone earns, the more likely they are to be clever about paying as little tax as possible.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kaff wrote: »
    Except, if all of them were on benefits, who would keep funding the benefits?

    There would be a revolution :D If everyone whose labour was taken advantage of said 'no more' and stopped at the same time, shit would change... I don't know how it would pan out but, I find it an interesting thought.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think it's called anarchy Katralla ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kaff wrote: »
    What about people who aren't? Some people will work a minimum wage job their whole lives. Why should they work when they would most likely be better off on benefits?

    Working a full time minimum wage should leave you better off than being on benefits. I've already said the pound for pound reduction (or worse) is wrong - if you make people work for no gain, why should they?

    I'm not happy with those that take the piss, but they're not in the majority of those that commit the fraud. I don't think the amount I pay to fraudsters is worth moaning about, (15 pounds per month at the very most? it's a meal out)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Big Gay wrote: »
    Working a full time minimum wage should leave you better off than being on benefits.

    Then where does the argument that people get stuck on benefits because they can't earn enough for it to be worth their while come from (from earlier in this thread)?

    Fair enough if you can only get part time work, but I'm sure that's not the case universally.

    This is actually a genuine question, btw - I don't know enough about the system to know the answer to it.
    I don't think the amount I pay to fraudsters is worth moaning about, (15 pounds per month at the very most? it's a meal out)

    Tbh, it's not the money that annoys me, cause I think we all know that even if the entire country were working the government would still find something to piss our taxes away on, it's the attitude of 'why should I work?' from people who are perfectly capable, and that this is even an option for them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    There would be a revolution :D If everyone whose labour was taken advantage of said 'no more' and stopped at the same time, shit would change... I don't know how it would pan out but, I find it an interesting thought.

    Surly if you do not like how this country is run, how much your paid etc etc, move away go somewhere else? the majority of the hard working individuals, myself included are quite happy to work for what we earn. want more? go/get a better job.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    estimate of benefit fraud value + overpayment is less than the people who don't claim what they can, normally through not knowing about it

    when people are struggling for work through no direct fault of their own, it's not the time to make benefit claiming harder or make people do unpaid labour to earn their benefits as it just reduces the real total pool of jobs available at any given moment

    my mum used to be a benefits advisor before she lost her job *boom boom* anyway the general system is so punitive & not understanding of how people on low pay work, cause they make most of their assumptions on an average weekly wage, not on casual one off work and variable hours

    if someone was entirely unemployed, but then got given £50 for some work they done for a friend, if they declared it, within a week they'd have the council tax and housing benefit people breathing down their necks for full rents/council tax for the month/year, so you'd spend a week chasign that up, spending money on letters/telephone calls that makes all the money you earned, turn into a deficit very quickly - so most people just avoid them where possible

    we shouldn't be stupidly punitive on taxation, but we should work to maximise tax intake for minumum effort in chasing people, but nah.... chase the people who have decide whether to replace their kids school clothes or have hot water for a few days.....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hellfire wrote: »
    Surly if you do not like how this country is run, how much your paid etc etc, move away go somewhere else? the majority of the hard working individuals, myself included are quite happy to work for what we earn. want more? go/get a better job.

    a fair days wages for a fair days work is where it's at :thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kaff wrote: »
    Tbh, it's not the money that annoys me, cause I think we all know that even if the entire country were working the government would still find something to piss our taxes away on, it's the attitude of 'why should I work?' from people who are perfectly capable, and that this is even an option for them.

    would you spend more than you recouped through chasing some of these people down whilst at the same time, making life harder for those innocent claiming benefits, what would you achieve other than vengeance? there's things you can do of course, but there's no need for the sledgehammer to crack a nut so to speak

    the best thing would be to limit certain payouts for things like housing benefit, like families being housed in mansions for extortionate amounts, anything more than 3/4 kids shouldn't be catered for, people can share rooms
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hellfire wrote: »
    Surly if you do not like how this country is run, how much your paid etc etc, move away go somewhere else? the majority of the hard working individuals, myself included are quite happy to work for what we earn. want more? go/get a better job.


    That's not what you do though, you want more so you claim benefits, so obviously you're not actually happy with how much you earn.

    I don't need to move thanks.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Benefits should be a safety net, not an alternative to work. People relying on them as an interim or supplement is not the problem, it's the institutional dependency that is.

    And before the fucking bleeding hearts start piping up with the "it's the system's fault" bullshit, I don't buy in to that for one fucking minute. Whilst not all claimants are scroungers who can't be fucked to work, some are. It is with those that I take umbrage.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    How?

    Because when the benefits were first put into place a family could rent a council house for the equivalent in todays money of lets say 80 pounds a week this meant that most working familys could pay the rent, if dad lost his job then the benefits would kick in and help the family for a few months until dad was working again. Even if they had to claim long term it was a much smaller amount than today.

    Today that family are forced to rent from a private landlord probably paying around 800 pound a month, of course the average family can not afford that so the benefits are now paid long term and much much larger amounts than before.

    So you see the way benefits are paid has changed from the way they were designed to work, this is not the claimants fault, but poor goverment decisions are to blame
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    That's not what you do though, you want more so you claim benefits, so obviously you're not actually happy with how much you earn.

    I don't need to move thanks.

    I am happy that I am paid fairly for what I do, YES I claim some benefits, of which go down every single year because I better myself and move up or to different jobs/departments. As I have said before I claim what I need to live, not what I can, I can have a lot more than what I get but I CHOOSE not to.

    Just because I get some form of benefit does NOT mean I want more, Your implying I am greedy, if I were greedy I'd be taking everything else which has been offered to me, free housing, day care/childminder allowance, I even get free prescriptions but normally pay if I can.

    Before you seem to assume you know my feelings, you might want to consult me first, I am happy with the fact I am paid a FAIR wage for the job I do, However as a step to improve my life for 1- ME and my family, and 2- To get away from Goverment handouts. I am moving up, different departments, different jobs, different responsabilities. the job I do is not suppose to be able to support a family, I am the only one in my whole department with children and a family, I appreciate what I get, not moan about wanting more, I want more so I work hard to get a better job or positions and move up, I started working a few years ago when laura fell pregnant, I earnt £120.00 per week, since then I worked my arse off every damn day and doubled that. How dare you imply I am greedy, I am happy that I am paid relitively, doesn't mean I do not want to earn more,

    Just because I want more money/higher earnings does not mean I am underpaid, Its called working, you work for more money. frankly any tom dick or harry with a bit of common sense could do my "main" job, hense why I move to my extra department.

    How about we get personal about you? do you claim benefits? work? oh no I bet you don't work, Don't wanna line the pockets of the fat cats, such a moral view? wait no your just lazy?


    Am I right, NO? I didn't think so but then again I am just doing what your doing, Twisting words and assuming. I do not need you to tell me what I am thinking or feeling? I know my life a damn site better than you.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You want more than you earn.

    Would you have suggested that the suffragettes move because they didn't like policies on voting too?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,329 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    There would be a revolution :D If everyone whose labour was taken advantage of said 'no more' and stopped at the same time, shit would change... I don't know how it would pan out but, I find it an interesting thought.

    "Imagine if tomorrow the whole world went on strike, not just British Rail but the whole world. Who would earn their profits who would make their bombs, you would see the hands of oppresion fumble as their systems crash to the ground. The responsibility you must bear when its your own future in your own hands may be a tough one to live up to, but at least you would own yourself".

    Paul Weller
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