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Nope. I am glad of it too. I wonder what you would hope for if there were such a thing and you were it.
Would your logic mean that if I could prove "God" existed, i would become him?
Just give me a standard of proof and we can get cracking. I mean no disrespect to anyone's faith, btw. I just want my faith, that of agnosticism given equal status.
Surely if you're an agnostic you can't disprove God
http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/humftp/E-text/Russell/agnostic.htm
The whole point of Agnosticism is that you think its impossible to know whether God exists or not.
If you believe you can disproove God you are an aethist http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&lr=&oi=defmore&q=define:atheism
Yeah. Weird huh.
But my standard of proof will make no sense to you because of the way that I understand the world and perception is so radically different from yours.
I am an Agnostic for reasons that would take a long time to go through. I am no atheist.
All you have to do is pick a proof.
Yes, but no weirder than most of what you write.
You also seem to have a different understanding of the word proof. if it makes no sense to me how can it be a standard of proof?
let me guess. because you have your own meaning of the word agnostic which is different from everyone else's in the UK?
Green cheese?
lol, just what i was thinking...........how can you be an agnostic klintock? your whole post is contradictory, you must be living in some fantasy world where words have different meanings than the commonly accepted ones........your posts on the semiotic thread, and now this...........we can't debate if you speak a different language..........define agnosticism for me.
Things decay, if "god" exists then he creates everything, yet cheese decays and so must be imperfectly created. If it is imperfectly created then there can be no perfect creator behind it, and so, no "god".
On the other hand, we know that nothing actually stays the same shape of form for very long, that "creation" itself is a myth. Forms change but the underlying stays the same and so there can be no creation. As there can be no creation then there can be no creator, so no "god".
One green cheese theory of god's non-existence.
The problem doesn't lie in the agnosticism, it lies in proof. If you look at my other posts about language and so on it might help.
I didn't say you couldn't understand it, just that it would take a hell of a long time to get it over.
this to me wreaks of creationism.
out of nothing comes eternity ...
continual renewal.
leave it sat in the ground to do it's own thing ...and with a little help from butterflies and other amazing lifeforms ...will live forever.
it will produce a thousand seeds.
it will mutliply itself forever.
feeding itself and others along the way ...forever.
Yes you did
I've bolded the bit as you seem to not only have a perception problem with what others write, but what you write as well.
PS your green cheese theory is bollocks as well
A belief that you do not know about the existence of god.
Why don't I know whether he is there or not?
Okay, you asked for it.
Imagine for a moment that you had a computer that simulated the universe perfectly. It would be able to predict the future 100% because it knew everything, from the wobble of an atom to the heart of a star.
So, the universe is on a fixed path.
I, however do not have this computer and so can only dimly perceive the future from guesses made from past events. I am totally uncertain what will happen next.
That something will happen next is certain (even if it's nothing). That that thing is fixed, already decided, is also certain. I am also 100% certain that I do not know what will happen next. Between these two extremes is where all events lay.
The chance between any event, no matter how unlikely happening and it not occurring is always even. Always. (50%, 2 to 1 or howver you want to call it.)
Hence the agnosticism.
Try reading the whole thing eh.
As I've just waded through several pages explaining why I thought something was "bollocks" i guess it's your turn.
To put it another way, how about dismantling what I wrote.
Rubbish. Given that you seem to have an extremely dodgy view of statistics you're not a professional economist by any chance?
your view and understanding of our reality seems very limiting.
I did read the whole thing. Could you explain to me what bit of
translates as
God has already created imperfection when he created man (which is why he sent his son to die for our sins) why would he not create imperfection with other things as well.
Your arguments don't make sense to anyone (apart from Seeker who's as lunatic as you)- and given the way you bob and weave I suspect they don;t actually make sense to you either.
How would you know there was not a god?
Answer honestly without changing the subject please.
That question again -
How would you know there was not a god?
i am not a religous man but am interested in religion.
i am fascinated at the unfolding story ...
as 19th century scientific knowledge gets blown away by twenty first century knowledge ...it appears ever more likely that creation might just be the truth.
when drwin did his thinking it was thinking that knew nothing whatsoever of genetic digital codings and the many complexities of a single human cell.
knowledge is an unfolding and growing thing.
a lot of peoples thinking seems to get cut short in my opinion by thinking in a manner that we already know all the right questions to ask and where to look.
our history proves that thinking people do in fact behave in this manner.
as recently as the 1920's scientists were declaring that the universe had now been seen and there wasn't much more matter out there ...oh how fucking wrong they were! they based this of course on what there very own eyes and knowledge were telling them.
Mmmm,I believe.........BUT,
Could be time for :angel: The Church of the Agnostic Lunatics :angel: ."Build it and they will come"
seeker
i'd like to hear what you think about our differing views on decay.
i'd like to hear what you think about people thinking in the static moment ...and knowledge actualy unfolding ...therefore changing what we know and believe.
Like your post about the difference between crime and thinking about crime.
I agree with this 100%
Aye true enough, it's the thought that "that's all there is" that really worries me about "god" to be honest. It's an easy answer a lot of the time and I don't like short cuts to thinking.
Which is what I do, and I am aware that I am just as likely to be wrong as I am to be right. I still think putting basic ideas through the pressure cooker is a good thing. (Yes, even that one)
I love this phrase.
And he built up his theory and left it on a shelf for two decades while he had a "normal" life before publishing it. Now THATS intelligence. Did you now that when his paper was being read to the world for the first time he was with his wife, having buried his son the same day? He knew what priorities a man should have. Genuinely great guy.
I digress. I agree with you on almost everything Roll.
I just cant understand how people can "ABSOLUTELY believe in something based wholly on faith". Do you have so little "faith" in yourself that you need someone else to tell you how you should live your life?
Craig
Faith is outside of science, it is the true path to salvation.
christian = christ like.
someone point out to me where the christ like bit is.
Obviously im not religious, but i dont really care what people believe in themselves. as long as they keep it to themselves, BUT in my expierence its people that say things like this that are so religious that they cant help preaching to everyone else, thats what pisses me off about religion more than anything else. in my opinion its people that think like you do that are CAUSING all the trouble in the world today Most of the major conflicts in history have been caused by one religion versus another. even today, terrorism in part is cause by religious fanatics ( both muslims taking the koran too seriously and the bible thumping Bush)(and im only talking about the religious FANATICS, NOT law abiding muslims, im not muslim bashing here).all over the world you have religious nuts trying to impose there version of morality/decency/family values on all the rest.... lets face it, that is ALWAYS going to cause violence and anger from other religions who dont share those same views, until religion is abolished ( and i mean here a complete seperation of church and state, im not abdicating outlawing religion, people can practice all they want in the confines of the house, and live there life the way they feel is most appropriate.)
Religions days are numbered... once the older generations start to dwindle, like they are doing now, hence the decline in numbers in most religions. each generation there will be fewer and fewer converts, but unfortunatly that wont be in my lifetime...
Craig
Everyone who is contemplating voting on 5th May should ask themselves that very question.
seeker