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Mrs Moroccan Roll...?

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    In that somebody developing a mental illness, particular of the types in which cannabis has been implicated, is unlikely to have a logical thought process and present themselves to their GP.

    Drug use, of the sort likely to lead to health problems, is inextricably linked to social disadvantage and less access and appropriate use of health services.

    If you honestly think problem drug users weigh up the pros and cons of their next fix, then you really are naive.

    i didn't mention drug users, i was talking bout people who are pre-disposed to a mental illness, it's a catch-all thingy.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    my point is that in some cases it can be a trigger thats all. if you dont know you are pre-disposed to mental health problems and you use cannabis -and that triggers them ...its too late then.
    no -one has any reason to question their mental health until they have problems do they?
    What are your opinions on alcohol then? A drug that can kill yu on withdrawal.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MoonRat wrote:
    What are your opinions on alcohol then? A drug that can kill yu on withdrawal.

    Yes, but unlike cannabis small amounts of alcohol have got known health benefits.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So does cannabis.

    Let's do a comparison table, shall we?

    Alcohol: kills 100,000 in the UK per year
    Cannabis: has never killed a person anywhere in worldwide history

    Alcohol: is responsible for more crimes than any other drug or circumstance. Plays a fundamental part on fights, abuse, murders, rapes, anti-social behaviour, beatings and spouse abuse to name but a few
    Cannabis: not exactly known for making people aggressive; can be linked to very few crimes at all (if any whatsoever)

    Alcohol: as well as the 100,000 people it kills in the UK alone every year, it harms many more physically and psychologically
    Cannabis: in some people it might create mental problems in later life.


    Someone explain to me again how dangerous cannabis is please...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wasnt trying to say alcohol is better than cannabis or the other way around.

    As I mentioned earlier there is a tendancy to just pick one side and argue.

    Both drugs have risks and both have potential benefits.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    So Someone explain to me again how dangerous cannabis is please...
    It is completely and totally irrelevant how dangerous alcohol is in camparison. The fact that cannabis is potentially dangerous even if legalised should be enough reason for it to remain illegal.

    That doesn't have to mean that police and CPS resources are used on trying to prosecute people, but legalising harmful substances gives totally the wrong message to society IMHO.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    i didn't mention drug users, i was talking bout people who are pre-disposed to a mental illness, it's a catch-all thingy.
    OK, all people with certain types of gradual-onset mental illness are unlikely to seek medical help on their own.

    And not everyone knows or understands which diseases they are predisposed to...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    It is completely and totally irrelevant how dangerous alcohol is in camparison. The fact that cannabis is potentially dangerous even if legalised should be enough reason for it to remain illegal.
    Everything, but absolutely everything is potentially dangerous.

    I guess we'd better ban everything, from meat to fruit to water to air, given the potential for harm they have.

    Surely you must be the world's biggest campaigner for the immediate illegalisation of alcohol, if you really think that cannabis should never be legalised because it might be potentially harmful?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    I wasnt trying to say alcohol is better than cannabis or the other way around.

    so you're trying to say alcohol isn't worse than cannabis, which, if you look at it in a sensible way, is bullshit. and little amounts of cannabis aren't going to be that damaging, actually mentally benfitial, yes, both do have risks and benefits but i know there's a rebellious stoner in there somewhere in you so stick up for us for once.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Surely you must be the world's biggest campaigner for the immediate illegalisation of alcohol, if you really think that cannabis should never be legalised because it might be potentially harmful?

    i'm pretty sure he uses the "if it's already legal then there's no point making it illegal" excuse, well he is entitled to his opinion.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Everything, but absolutely everything is potentially dangerous.

    I guess we'd better ban everything, from meat to fruit to water to air, given the potential for harm they have.

    Surely you must be the world's biggest campaigner for the immediate illegalisation of alcohol, if you really think that cannabis should never be legalised because it might be potentially harmful?
    Must we go through this every time?

    There is a difference between banning something which is widely consumed, on which a significant part of our economy is based, and is culturally acceptable; and legalising something which is less harmful but none of the above.

    This is an argument about preventing potential harm, rather than levelling the playing field for all harmful substances known to man.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    i'm pretty sure he uses the "if it's already legal then there's no point making it illegal" excuse, well he is entitled to his opinion.
    Excuse? Logical reasoning, surely?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    Must we go through this every time?

    There is a difference between banning something which is widely consumed, on which a significant part of our economy is based, and is culturally acceptable; and legalising something which is less harmful but none of the above.
    If you think cannabis is not widely consumed or culturally acceptable (at least as much as alcohol in many quarters) you must have been living in a different country.

    The economics argument is not very relevant anyway- were cannabis to be legalised the government would make huge amounts of money out of it- probably as much if not more than from alcohol duty.
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    SkiveSkive Posts: 15,286 Skive's The Limit
    Aladdin wrote:
    The economics argument is not very relevant anyway- were cannabis to be legalised the government would make huge amounts of money out of it- probably as much if not more than from alcohol duty.

    As it is, the the people to benifit most economically at the monent are criminals.
    Weekender Offender 
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Exactly. More the reason to legalise it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    There is a difference between banning something which is widely consumed, on which a significant part of our economy is based, and is culturally acceptable;
    This is an argument about preventing potential harm, rather than levelling the playing field for all harmful substances known to man.
    illegal drugs generate upto ten billion quid a year in the UK ...quite a significant ammount of money i would say ...care to name respectable companies who move that kind of money around the country?

    all harmful substances ...bleach cement plaster chipboard ...petrol pesticides air fresheners paint glue varnish cars ...the list could go on and on and on and on.
    most comunities find cannabis more acceptable than nicotine ...cannabis downgraded ...nicotine being banned from public use?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    and lets look at canada.
    the government have washed their hands of policing it and told the people to do as they wish.
    result ...cannabis is now canadas biggest commercial export.
    not a drug cartel in sight either ...problems ...none apparently.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    It is completely and totally irrelevant how dangerous alcohol is in camparison. The fact that cannabis is potentially dangerous even if legalised should be enough reason for it to remain illegal.

    That doesn't have to mean that police and CPS resources are used on trying to prosecute people, but legalising harmful substances gives totally the wrong message to society IMHO.
    I think it is absolutely fine to have potentially harmful substances legalised for medicinal use. All medicines and drugs have positive and negative effects. A lot of prescription only drugs have the potential for abuse and therefore their use is monitored. A lot of simple over the counter drugs even can be very dangerous if misused. Im not sure why cannabis should be thought of differently.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    There is a difference between banning something which is widely consumed, on which a significant part of our economy is based, and is culturally acceptable; and legalising something which is less harmful but none of the above.

    This is an argument about preventing potential harm, rather than levelling the playing field for all harmful substances known to man.

    i hope thats not the logical reasoning you've been talking about ;)

    c'mon kent, think about it, whats wrong if a person wants to smoke a joint, is he harming himself, yes, it's his choice, will you be affected, nope, unlike alcohol which cna lead to violence

    no human can go through life without harming themselves, you wouldn't be human otherwise, from kids scrapping knees, inhaling paint fumes to smoking cannabis, it'll happen, the body is designed to cope, you will cope, broaden your horizens and you'll understand, i know you're a healthy man and i can see where you're coming from but cannabis is a npothing drug compared to say heroin or coke.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote:
    As it is, the the people to benifit most economically at the monent are criminals.
    only partly true skive.
    there are billions of tax free quids circulating in the british economy thanks to drugs.
    where does this money get spent?
    woolworths ...tesco ...B&Q ...newsagents furniture manufacturers etc etc.
    so the government is already recieving a massive tax kick bak.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    cannabis is a npothing drug compared to say heroin or coke.
    heroin causes no damage to the human body.
    the biggest harm from smoking joints comes from the tobacco.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    If you think cannabis is not widely consumed or culturally acceptable (at least as much as alcohol in many quarters) you must have been living in a different country.
    Methinks it is you who has only one cultural viewpoint.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Me and most people I know. And that includes my bosses (respected and successful business people in the antiques business aged over 50) and many of their friends.

    Perhaps I've just been mixing with wrong crowd eh?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think it is absolutely fine to have potentially harmful substances legalised for medicinal use. All medicines and drugs have positive and negative effects. A lot of prescription only drugs have the potential for abuse and therefore their use is monitored. A lot of simple over the counter drugs even can be very dangerous if misused. Im not sure why cannabis should be thought of differently.
    No one here would benefit from that, hence I suggested we separate the health benefits and civil liberties arguments.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    c'mon kent, think about it, whats wrong if a person wants to smoke a joint, is he harming himself, yes, it's his choice, will you be affected, nope, unlike alcohol which cna lead to violence

    no human can go through life without harming themselves, you wouldn't be human otherwise, from kids scrapping knees, inhaling paint fumes to smoking cannabis, it'll happen, the body is designed to cope, you will cope, broaden your horizens and you'll understand, i know you're a healthy man and i can see where you're coming from but cannabis is a npothing drug compared to say heroin or coke.
    Again, this is about preventing as much harm as is reasonably possible.

    Legalising harmful substances, including cannabis in an increasingly anti-smoking climate, can only lead to more wide spread use and therefore potentially more harm.

    I'm not making a sophisticated argument - it just seems logical to me.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    No one here would benefit from that, hence I suggested we separate the health benefits and civil liberties arguments.
    cannabis helps me with back and neck pain.
    but ...it also gives me great pleasure ...what is wrong with getting pleasure from a herb?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Perhaps I've just been mixing with wrong crowd eh?
    Just a politically and socially limited one it seems.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    Again, this is about preventing as much harm as is reasonably possible.

    Legalising harmful substances, including cannabis in an increasingly anti-smoking climate, can only lead to more wide spread use and therefore potentially more harm.

    I'm not making a sophisticated argument - it just seems logical to me.
    what is this harm we are speaking of?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    Just a politically and socially limited one it seems.
    thats outragous!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    cannabis helps me with back and neck pain.
    but ...it also gives me great pleasure ...what is wrong with getting pleasure from a herb?
    You're in the minority here then, and I expect you wouldn't stop if your back and neck pain was suddenly cured.

    If you want better painkillers, argue for better painkillers.

    If you want to smoke cannabis, argue for the legalisation of cannabis.
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