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Has anyone ever been offered it outside their school gates by a total stranger?
Was anyones first drug experience with weed/hash and not fags/booze?
Answers from personal experience only not hearsay.
ps Whowhere, just wondering are you joining Avon and Somerset cops by any chance?
ps Blagsta, is that your photo? if so how's Zoe Ball?
So why not ban alcohol? Lots of people are affected in the same way by alcohol.
I'm not sticking up for any drugs, I detest them and would never take them ( with the exception of cannabis) but I have problem with some of the lower-classed drugs being downgraded. You haven't come up with a suitable argument why people shouldn't do it?
The fact is that thousands of people take drugs every weekend. The majority suffer few problems. A minority have massive problems. But IMO a lot of these problems would be lessened by legalisation for the reasons already stated.
It is me actually. Me and Photoshop.
Are you saying I look like Norman Cook? Or Johnny Ball?
But, yes, you are right, there have been deaths from people using MDMA, but many of those were to do with the condictions under which it was taken and the purity of the drug. There is some evidence for example to suggest that Leah Betts might not have died if she had not consumed so much water, as she was misinformed about how much to drink.
Black Arab; My first drug experience was with Hash, before I got drunk or smoked a cig. But I do realise this is somewhat rare.
Luce You have to realise that not all drugs are the same! All drugs are addictive, yes, but every pleasurable activity is, like eating, exercise etc. But no-where near all class A drugs are physically addictive, or addictive in any way to the varst majority of people who use them. Yes heroin and cocaine are a plague on society, but there are many other drugs which are no-where near as dangerous.
Leah Betts died as a result of ingesting ridiculous amounts of water- her kidneys simply gave in. She did this because she did not know the facts about ecstasy and she believed "you had to drink lots and lots of water to be safe". She was not dancing and sweating, simply hanging around a party and drinking litre after litre of water so there is little surprise about the tragic outcome.
The pill she took (and 'apple' I think it was) turned up to be very pure (yet not too strong) and thus a very safe one. Drug dealers actually reported increased sales for 'apples' after the forensic report came out.
Oh, and another thing. Ecstasy is not addictive.
Looking back from when you have been using drugs have you been really dependant on the drug and have commited a crime to get the drug ? Have you borrowed money because you feel that you 'need' the drug ?
If you had a 16 yr old son/Daughter would you try to stop them trying drugs of any kind ? Which drug do you think causes the most problem and probably the most addictive ?
Being a user of drugs would you turn the clock back and never have started in the first place ?
Me being a smoker (cigarettes, nothing else) i deffinatley would never have started in the 1st place and id do anything to stop people even start in the 1st place. So im curious on your views of how you would handle your Son/Daughter doing drugs.
Thanks
but even you would admit them pictures were horrific. For me not being a user thats all I would see and remeber how horrific they were.
Her parents would not want to see another person end up like their Daghter did, so its all about educating. Like in your post you are educating people who may be thinking about using that specific drug by explaining the do's and dont's.....which is a good thing :thumb:
But that's hardly news isn't it?
If you could buy it 'over the counter' then you could ask for details from everyone who bought it. In this way you could do your best to stop kids getting it. Do dealers ask for ID? Of course not and with pills going for a pound each its cheaper than cider for kids now.
Becky; Have I commited a crime to 'feed my drug use' - Yes. Every time I buy a drug I am commiting a crime, its unavoidable really isnt it. I really dont like the situation though. I have never robbed, stolen etc. to get drugs EVER.
I have gone without other things because at the time I prefered amphetamine to buying new CD's clothes etc. But it was always always MY money.
Would I change anything? NO, definately not, I am a better person, I am happier with myself, I am happier with my friends and we know each other better because of the things we have done. I also think my relationship with my wife is better because of it.
What drug do I think is the most addictive? Clearly that is crack, I really really dislike cocaine, it has a reputation that is no where near the reality, thats very dangerous.
However I think alcohol does the most social damage because it has more users.
I would much rather know if my kid was using, than them lie to me. We would then discuss the issue and I would explain all the dangers to them.
My main concern is that the main reason people seem to give for legalising drugs is that "the law isn't working". To use various examples, the law on speeding and drink-driving are not working- peoople still do it, and often- but that doesn't mean that speed limits should be abolished, and that drink-drivers should be allowed to drive after 22 pints of Stella. Yes, those examples are slightly different because they impact on others, but the point still remains valid.
I understand the protection and liberty arguments, but I'm still very dubious that the arguments are water-tight enough to allow highly addictive drugs out onto the market freely. Especially as, if the drugs are legal and freely available, they would become more marketable and that, in itself, would make them more desirable. It wouldn't make most people convert, but those who were thinking of dabbling but were too afraid of the law to would try them.
Also, the issue of who would provide the drugs is important. If doctors prescribe heroin, for instance, then it's not very different to them prescribing methadone now, and if doctors prescribe things like E or coke then either doctors would ahve to give them to everyone, regardless of medical advice, or there would become a black market for these drugs, like there is for Viagra now, for those who couldn't find a doctor to give it to them. If it's just a drugs shop that provides them, would that be a private enterprise- meaning advertising- or a state-operated franchise? How would the state stop children getting their hands on very harmful or addictive drugs?
The law doesn't work, but that simply means that the law needs to be reviewed and adapted- it doesn't mean that the law should be abandoned.
None of us are suggesting that. What I am suggesting is that, after years of reform of the drugs education policy in this country it would be better for someone to go to their local drugs education centre to buy their MDMA under tight control, than it would be for them to buy it from a dealer in a club.
These drugs would certainly NOT be marketed in any shape or form and there would be education given at the sale on effects and dangers.
The question is, how can we reduce the harm done to individuals and society by drugs? I think the answer lies with education and harm prevention. Your not going to stop people doing it, you might as well try and perswade people to make informed choices and do it as safely as possible.
lets make burglary and speeding on the roads legal is a none argument. these things are not distrupting society to the extent of illegal drugs ...people arent going round shooting each other to control their big big tax free turn over of hard cash becuase they want to drive to fast.
ladymuck thinks we'd be better off leaving things the way they are! ok ...gun crime and mayhem will eventualy rule every street in the land ...you don't seem to grasp that there is 10 billion quid a year up for grabs on the streets by anyone tough enough and determined enough to have control ...believe me theres plenty of people out there who are tough enough and mean enough.
name a british company that turns over 10 billion quid a year. just to get some perspective of how big this thing is.
becky ...all my kids smoke pot ...only one of them to excess and he's doing fine. all of them drop an ecstacy tablet around three times a yr on their get togethers at blackpool partys. i am more than happy with it.
most dangerous drug out there ...crack.
i turned to heroin after making loads of money from two well planned crimes and some cannabis smuggling. no violence ...no weapons. at one point i was seriously involved with supplying a a famous recording studio with a lot of cannabis. i ended up with so much cash at one point and in the company of the wrong people when the sha of iran was toppled causing tons and tons of brown heroin ...a completly new product for the west ...to flood western europe. cannabis became almost worthless for a while as millions of people switched to this new product. i became hopelessly addicted for a number of years. i'm fine now and have smoked weed for 36 years ...i have no intention to stop ...i go weeks sometimes without smoking it. i love the stuff!
So the fact that most drugs turn their users into helpless addicts doesn't matter. Instead we should dimply give it away for free?
yes, a real good idea, let's turn the citizens of this country into a nation of addicts.
Blagsta, you're missing the point entirely. Apart from the obvious points that most drugs are harmful and have terrible addictive qualities as well as side effects, THE MAJORITY DON'T WANT THEM LEGALISED.
You can argue about how fucking great they are until you're blue in the face. People will just ignore you.
And frankly you should know better, like I've mentioned before you see the harmful effects of drugs everday, but you still decide that legalisation is the way to go. Hmm, I smell hypocrite.
seems like you have read nothing in this thread about the facts.
most drugs are not highly addictive or only as addictive as alcohol. how many people use alcohol and how many abuse it?
seeing as over ten billion quid a year is spent on illegal drugs in the uk alone and seeing as drug consumption as been huge for thirty years ...how come the hospitals and mental institutes haven't collapsed under the strain of all these seriously sick and demented people.
you answer none of the arguments ...you refute none of the facts put before you. instead you just keep repeating the same old mindless and illinformed crap.
your knowledge of drugs is nil.
Oh for fucks sake. :rolleyes:
Please try and READ AND ENGAGE WITH THE DEBATE. This is pointless otherwise.
Yes, I see the harmful effects of drugs everyday. And this is why I want them legalised. Because a lot of the harmful affects are due to prohibition. I'm not the only person to think this. A lot of drug workers think this as well as top police officers, government thinktanks and MP's. Explain that one away.
http://www.drugscope.org.uk/news_item.asp?intID=933
http://www.drugscope.org.uk/news_item.asp?intID=831
http://www.drugscope.org.uk/news_item.asp?intID=679
http://www.drugscope.org.uk/news_item.asp?intID=335
http://www.drugscope.org.uk/news_item.asp?intID=223
Please try to take in what we're trying to explain :banghead:
Most drugs carry very little risk of addiction. People very rarely become dependant on drugs such as Cannabis, Ecstasy and LSD.
The majority (like yourself) are influenced by articles in the paper and government scare tacticts and don't know enough about the situation to make a fair judgment.
Why do you refuse to see that by keeping drugs illegal you are only fueling more crime and funding a black market which is largely controlled be organised crime and terrorists.
Most drugs do not have 'terrible addictive qualities'. Most users use drugs quite safely without becoming dependant on any. The same way the 'majority' of people use alcohol without problems.
We're not promoting drugs here, we trying to argue a case that would see both users AND non users benifit from legalisation. I agree that some drugs like (such as crack) can wreck lives but putting the control and distribution of that drug in the hands of criminals, and then prosecuting the addicts who take it is a big mistake.
Why not try to answer some of the points we've been making rather than just bang on about how terrible drugs are.
OR ...he'll say ..."well while it's still against the law i'll make 'em sorry they ever came on my patch"!
the guy is totaly ignorant about the facts and hgas obviously no intention of educating himself. unbfortunately he has been given the authority to harrass!
we should start a campaign to criminalise should idiots.
I do think your a prime candidate for the 'Stars in your eyes' DJ special lol!
Remind me again about the argument that says that people won't progress to "harder" substances...
the continous lack of education/information about such things ensnared a few million people into addiction. it became the most popular of drugs because it literaly flooded the streets of europe.
it was also a very comforting substance. it was also incredibly easy to invest a thousand pounds and turn it into five thousand pounds in twenty four hours ...every twenty four hours. you could buy as little as a hundred quids worth in the morning and by the evening have a grand in your pocket.
it replaced coal in mining towns that had lost all source of income.
once respectable greengrocers and news agents who were about to go down with the closure of the local pit started selling the stuff to survive and...if you sold it you had to be seen to use it or you were considered to be very very dodgy ...legitamate target for a good kicking or worse and the loss of all your money and your bag of goodies ...we are still living with that legacy.
it had nothing to do with people progressing from cannabis.
a safe estimate would be that a tiny tiny percentage of people who start smoking cannabis will become heroin addicts.
what of the people who start on heroin ...is that a gateway to the drugs they end up settling for ...lager and a weed?
most people star on tobacco ...a gateway to best bitter? best bitter a gateway to crack?
of course some people will want to try everything but the way this gateway thing is put across totaly ignores the fact that for thousands of people their first drug is mushrooms or heroin or speed.
why do people presume that people start with cannabis? misinformation and lack of education again.