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Happy Cannabis Day!

Today marks the downgrading of cannabis to a 'Class C' substance. Although many of us would like to see cannabis decriminalised altogether, this is at least a step in the right direction.

Won't notice much of a diffrence in Brixton, mind. :D

So, is anyone against the downgrading, and why?
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Personally I think its been handled shockingly poorly, even given this governments past drugs education.

    Its a pointless half-way-house that although a step in the right direction still keeps virtually all the negative aspects of it being illegal.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    happy confused err what was i doing day!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    happy confused err what was i doing day!

    :D

    Yes bongbudda, I know it doesn't go far enough, but at least it is a step in the right direction.

    It won't make any difference to me at the end of the day. I have and will continue to smoke in public as well as at home in full view from the street as I live on a ground floor and have big front windows.. Frankly I couldn't care less about anti-drug laws at the best of times, and in particular when it comes to legislating what I can or cannot do in my own home.

    That it is still punishable by law is a disgrace in itself, but like I said this is a step in the right direction (changes take longer to occur in this country than in the Continent, we all know that) and we're now one step closer to full decriminalisation.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    well its still not gonna make me smoke it, with all the firms doing drug testing to their employees its not worth it
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's been done for the wrong reasons i belive. But as you say Aladdin, it's a step forward, and not backwards.

    It won't make much difference to me, i shall continue to smoke regardless of what the laws are.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's a step forward towards the ultimate goal...legalising it.

    Won't make much of a difference anywhere i think, smoking's everywhere now.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sounds a good move, if alcohol is legal then why isn't having a spliff?

    Even if it stayed at that classification I'd smoke it, it's a treat now and again.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The sheer fact that smoking Weed will some day make me go insane is enough to put me off, plus the fact that it stinks worse than cigarettes and is as bad for your lungs and heart as smoking is anyway.

    What we may soon find are a lot more road accidents caused by people who have got high on weed, and I'm going to look forward to prosecuting every last one of them.

    http://www.drugscope.org.uk/druginfo/evidence-select/cannabishealth.htm
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Whowhere
    What we may soon find are a lot more road accidents caused by people who have got high on weed, and I'm going to look forward to prosecuting every last one of them.

    Why would that happen? I doubt people are going to be taking more risks with cannabis now that it has been downgraded. People will be a public/private as they have always been I suspect.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere, the cannabis link to schizophrenia hasn't exactly been proved. And even those who believe in are wiser than to suggest occasional use of cannabis (which is the category most users fall into) would lead to schizophrenia.

    I tell you have has been proved without a doubt instead: that alcohol is the an extremely damaging drug to both individuals and society at large; that at least 100,000 deaths a year are caused by alcohol consumption in the UK alone (compare those figures with that of cannabis-related deaths: 0 in the history of mankind); that drink driving is responsible for nearly a third of all road accidents; that alcohol is responsible for countless crimes such as assaults, abuse, rape, murder, theft, general violence, domestic violence and many others. Etc etc.

    I don't know what your chief's priorities on cannabis will be. But believe me: every time you or any other officer in this country arrest a cannabis user (not while driving of course which is a legitimate concern) valuable police time is being completely wasted for no good reason whatsoever. A lot of police officers could take a leaf out of Brian Paddick's book.

    But anyway. It is good of you to ensure every last person who drives stone is prosecuted. I can just hope you will also be looking forward to prosecute every last drunk driver and those who are speeding, who regardless of the right wing press' denials are as bloody dangerous as a pisshead behind the wheel.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    that at least 100,000 deaths a year are caused by alcohol consumption in the UK alone (compare those figures with that of cannabis-related deaths: 0 in the history of mankind);

    Didn't someone die from cannabis poisining last week? Someone is Wales somewhere. Then again, that was the first one on record in Britain.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Whowhere
    The sheer fact that smoking Weed will some day make me go insane

    Pardon? While cannabis can definitely exacerbate pre-exisiting mental health problems or cause depression and anxiety while using it, there is no evidence to suggest that it causes long term mental health problems.

    [edit to add]
    In fact it even states this in that link you posted.
    There is little evidence that cannabis alone produces a psychosis that persists after the period of intoxication

    and
    Chronic cannabis use may precipitate cannabis in vulnerable individuals but not cause the underlying psychotic disorder
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There are concerns about the strength of skunk, maybe that should've been made class A. Have the Police been prepared for the probable long-term increase in toking motorists, I believe there's no specific easy road-side test.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by ladymuck
    There are concerns about the strength of skunk, maybe that should've been made class A. Have the Police been prepared for the probable long-term increase in toking motorists, I believe there's no specific easy road-side test.

    There has never been any serious steps taken to make skunk Class A.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by the doc horatio
    Didn't someone die from cannabis poisining last week? Someone is Wales somewhere. Then again, that was the first one on record in Britain.
    This is true, but it was the person's absurdly high consumption that killed them. It really didn't matter whether it was cannabis or sliced bread. Too much of anything will kill you. People have died as a result of drinking too much water- yet no one would regard drinking water as a dangerous activity.

    As I understand it there has never been a recorded death as a result of cannabis consumption anywhere in the world, ever (last week's incident excluded, which as I explained I don't think qualifies).

    If alcohol didn't exist until now and it was discovered today, it would immediately be made illegal and probably regarded as the most dangerous and damaging substance known to society. Cannabis is by comparison infinitely safer- but it has never quite been the drug of choice of the ruling classes.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    no one has ever died from cannabis toxicity. the coroner who made this statement WILL ...be made to eat his own words.
    to od you'd have to eat about 5kilo's which would be physicaly impossible!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    This is true, but it was the person's absurdly high consumption that killed them. It really didn't matter whether it was cannabis or sliced bread. Too much of anything will kill you. People have died as a result of drinking too much water- yet no one would regard drinking water as a dangerous activity.

    As I understand it there has never been a recorded death as a result of cannabis consumption anywhere in the world, ever (last week's incident excluded, which as I explained I don't think qualifies).

    If alcohol didn't exist until now and it was discovered today, it would immediately be made illegal and probably regarded as the most dangerous and damaging substance known to society. Cannabis is by comparison infinitely safer- but it has never quite been the drug of choice of the ruling classes.

    Al doesn't this appply to all the alcohol related deaths as well?

    How is Cannabis infinitely safer? What you say is true, taking things in excess is damaging. Nobody has ever died from drinking a pint in the same way that no-one has dies from smoking a spliff.

    The effects of alcohol are so prevalent and obvious precisely because it is legal and has been established in society for so long.
    The effects of Cannabis are so unclear and unknown precisely because it is illegal and has not been so well established in our culture (but this is not an argument for its legalisation)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the cannabis link to schizophrenia hasn't exactly been proved.
    Only because there hasn't been long-term research into it. By the time that happens, a lot of people will have smoked it, and then if there is a definite link between it and mental illness, it will be too late.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    massive research was done into cannabis in victorian times due to the ammount of british troops in india who had taken to smoking large quantities of it. the fear was reefer madness which was often seen in market places and such, when men would suddenly run amok hacking at people with a machette and other well documented stories of the day. the research showed there was no such thing as reefer madness and what was being witnessed was the effects of syphilis.
    the troops were bringing tons and tons of the stuff back to the uk as were many trading ships ...perfectly legaly. even queen victoria smoked the stuff daily as did the population as a whole.
    in those days england had the biggest rope manufacturing factories in the world ...making hemp rope for shipping around the world. the workers toked on the massive supplies of weed on a daily basis ...where the saying ...smoking old rope comes from.
    all the research since then right up today confirms what the victorian research found.
    it pisses me off that people seem to believe cannabis to be some kind of modern thing. resin ...grass ...and tincture could and was brought legaly from chemists shops across the land with no problems. the first world war killed off it's consumption. by the 1920's it was again massively popular. the second world war killed it off. in the 1950's it again became popular through west indian imigration into the uk.
    it has never been a problem ...from the red indians of america to the vikings of europe. when viking ships are dug out of the mud ...it is common to find the petrified remains of a huge slab of resin in the cupboard.
    it only becomes a problem when people are turned into criminals for using what is basicaly a herb.
    even in the bible in the very first book ...genesis ..."and i give to man every seed bearing plant for his use and pleasure ..."
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Toadborg
    Al doesn't this appply to all the alcohol related deaths as well?

    How is Cannabis infinitely safer? What you say is true, taking things in excess is damaging. Nobody has ever died from drinking a pint in the same way that no-one has dies from smoking a spliff.
    High (and sometimes just moderate) alcohol consumption has been proven without a doubt to be the direct or indirect cause of countless deaths. This is not from a massive one night bender but from the cumulative damage alcohol does to our liver, kidneys and other organs (though healthy people have also been known to die from a single alcohol overdose). Even the hangovers can kill in extreme cases- something not even heroin does.

    No one on the other hand has ever died from regular cannabis consumption- even those who smoke it every day.

    Yes, there might be a case that cannabis can cause mental health problems in later life. But if you compare all the date known the figures speak for themselves:

    Alcohol: Linked to up to 100,000 deaths every year

    Cannabis: Never linked to a death in recorded history



    Alcohol: Linked to up to a third of all road accidents (another 1,000 or so fatalities) and many violent crimes of all sorts and seriousness.

    Cannabis: Don't know how many deaths on road but surely not more than a dozen or two per year. As for violent crime... well anyone who's smoked knows that if anything, cannabis suppresses violence.


    Now I know that the immense majority of us are able to indulge in the consumption of alcohol without being part of the above statistics (although in the health front the odds are sadly much lower). But the figures still stand, and to be frank if you compare all the things alcohol does to us as persons and society, against the things cannabis might do to us, I think there is no contest. I’m perfectly happy with the decriminalisation of all drugs, but those who oppose the decriminalization of cannabis on the grounds that it might be harmful to us should at the same time campaign for the illegalisation of alcohol.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Luce
    Only because there hasn't been long-term research into it. By the time that happens, a lot of people will have smoked it, and then if there is a definite link between it and mental illness, it will be too late.

    People have been using cannabis for thousands of years.
    I'm not a cannabis advocate, haven't touched it myself for about 7 years, but I do think it should be legal. Yes, it causes mental health problems for a minority of people, but these are generally underlying problems or disappear after ceasing to use cannabis.

    You know which drug causes the most mental health problems? Alcohol.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes, alcohol is the drugs that causes the most mental health prolems but alcohol is also the most-widely used drug. It's like what someone said in one of the many race threads- if black people are in a majority in an area of course black people will be comitting the most crimes.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ok, you may not go insane, although I doubt the ability of the Victorians and their long term research as being any good.
    But it is still smoke, and smoking anything will kill you eventually. It even said in the link, weed users are more likely to suffer smoking related diseases than tobacco smokers due to the nature of how they smoke (no filter, deep puffs).

    The thing thats pissing me off as well are the stupid fucks who think it's ok to smoke it in public, I'll be on the look out for them and they'll wish they hadn't.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    and the police wonder why people hate them :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    90% of all people in custody have traces of Cannabis in their bodies. Of those 80% also have traces of other, harder drugs.
    Cannabis NOT being a gateway to crime and harder drugs is a myth.

    I know many of you will say "But alcohol does this e.t.c." People don't commit crime to fuel an addiction to alcohol.
    Burglaries aren't done by people hooked on booze. People aren't robbed in the street because their attacker is hooked on cider. People don't end up on the streets begging because they were unlucky, they do it because the dealer who gave them some heroin free the first time milked them for all they were worth the subscequent times.

    Yes, a lot of people use cannabis and lead fairly normal lives. Those people mix in their own circles at university or at work. They don't give a second thought to where the drug comes from, or how it was paid for.

    The police may be hated, you'll hate us even more when you realise that the reason your beloved weed has gone up in price is because we're seizing the houses, cars and bank accounts of the people who grow it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I work in drug rehab/counselling so I think I know a little bit about it. :rolleyes:

    Btw drugs are coming down in price, not up.

    Legalise drugs and you remove most of the social problems associated with them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How would legalising something like heroin help solve social problems may I ask?
    You'd still get people addicted to it, robbing people for money.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Are there crime rings that operate by smuggling alcohol into the country? No. You get blokes bringing in a bit too much from the C&C in France for their barbecue or just before the World Cup.

    Why? Because it is legal.

    I think, and I think others agree with me, that if the government set a legal barrier as to how much you can bring into the country like they have for alcohol, some of the crime would go.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Making heroin legally available to addicts would remove criminals from the supply. Heroin (in fact all illegal drugs) are kept at an artificially high price due to their black market status and the risks associated with their supply. This means that users need to get loads of money to fund a habit. They often fund habits with crime. Make it legally available and the crime rate would halve overnight. The violence associated with the drug trade is also down to it being illegal.
    The main health risks associated with heroin use are also due to prohibition. Users never know the purity of what they are buying or what its cut with, this can lead to greater risk of OD or other health problems. Legalise it and you greatly reduce these risks.
    A lot of people who work in the drugs field along with some politicians and some top police officers agree with this.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by the doc horatio
    Are there crime rings that operate by smuggling alcohol into the country? No.

    there are actually
    http://www.sghms.ac.uk/depts/addictive-behaviour/infores/tobacco.htm

    http://www.hmce.gov.uk/protect/ourfight/alcohol.htm

    Legalising it won't solve the problem, it'll just create more problems.
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