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Yes, thats the line that most racists take these days, to try and make themselves look 'respectable'. Fact is, the only cultures that you seem to have a problem with are ones that also have a different skin colour. Funny that innit? :rolleyes:
Yes they are. MASSIVE generalisations. So my Muslim and African friends and work colleagues are violent, anti-Western and loud are they? Errrrr...right you are.
Who is saying that us "liberals" (you still haven't got a fucking clue about that btw) "[love] all immigrants no matter what their background, history or intentions"? Find where I said that and you can have my next pay cheque.
The thing is that many generalisations and stereotypes come about for a reason.
People shouldnt tar everyone with the same brush, but it happens. When you see a woman in Nigeria sentenced to death for having a child outside of wedlock, when you see the violence in tribal Africa, when you see the humanitarian abuses in Iraq, Saudi, Pakistan, et al. When you hear the ethnic population of Bradford declaring that "America deserved it" three days after 11/9, its hard to come to any other conclusion.
Things are never black-and-white (no pun intended), but to say that because "my mate is sound" the whole population is sound is as stupid as saying that because one Pakistani is a pimp that theyre all pimps.
Not the whole population is bad, but I dont see it as a coincidence that the highest crime areas of Bradford, say, are those that just happen to be inhabited by Pakistanis. And its the same in London, Birmingham, Leicester, etc, with otehr ethnic minorities.
But I havent heard a good reason as to why economic migrants should actually BE tolerated in this country. Because theyre poor? My grandmother is poor, I dont see anyone helping the pensioners of this country.
Yes, generally because people are lazy.
If you're lazy, maybe. And I would actually take massive issue with you saying "the ethnic population of Bradford declaring that "America deserved it" three days after 11/9". What everyone said that? Come on! And by "ethnic population" what do you mean? Everyone comes from an ethnic group. Which group do you mean?
You can do better than that.
Errrr...not what I'm saying. What I am saying is that giantno2 is full of shit. I actually have experience of living in diverse communities in Sheffield, Wolverhampton, Birmingham and London and getting along with my Muslim and African neighbours. I don't recognise what giantno2 is saying really.
Sure, there is a strand within those cultures that is a bit like what he is saying, but thats like saying that British culture is defined by the likes of the NF, C18 and the BNP. Cultures are not homogenised static entities, something right wingers seem to forget.
Very simplistic analysis there. Totally ignoring issues of class, economics and other social factors.
Economic migrants are generally here due to the actions of Western governments and Trans-National Corporations and unfair trade rules imposed by the WTO etc.
And you don't see anyone helping the pensioners of this country? Never heard of Help the Aged? Meals on Wheels? Social services? Come on Kermit...
There is no such thing as 'muslim culture', there is certainly arab and middle eastern culture. Perhaps thats what you mean?
My muslim friends here are as meek as can be when we go out. They dont drink, they dont do drugs and they dont start fights every weekend like a number of my white english friends.
British muslim culture is far closer to my white British culture than say Saudi arabian muslim culture. Westernised muslims have exactly the same culture as the rest of the people in their nation, with the obvious exception of a few prayers and a few rules to follow.
People dont change overnight, they cant pickup and assimilate into British culture straight away. Just as you couldnt assimilate into their culture straight away, no matter how hard you tried. Most first generation immigrants will try to integrate, will try to learn the language..Many of them will choose to live with their own cultural groups within the UK when they get here...but their children will be almost totally British in culture.
Don't you complain that people label you and others who speak like you 'racist' when you come up with fucking racist bullshit such as "Modern Muslim culture is violent and anti-Western, and African culture is violent and loud".
I'm starting to seriously believe that you're simply trolling round here. In the (increasingly remote) case that you aren't, let me point out to you that the 'muslim' culture as you put it was teaching Christianity lessons about tolerance and respect for women (yes, respect for women) 900 years ago. If you choose to use a few isolated radicals and their beliefs to evaluate the whole Arab/Muslim world I could do the same with Christianity by citing the examples of deep bible belt America, the Catholic fundamentalism of the Opus Dei and countless other ultra-Christian groups that make the Taleban look like a model of harmony.
You're so clueless is pathetic.
You really amaze me with some of the stuff you come out with. Kermit tells you his Grandmother is poor and you mention meals and wheels to him ???? wtf you are taking the piss arent you ?
You have obviously no idea about the cultures of Africans and Asians to be posting crap like that, either quit or come up with honest examples people can debate.
I am all for anybody involved in serious crimes being stopped. Most people are regardless of colour, class and creed .end of. Your constantly rant on about non-white English crime why not look a little closer to home. You don't see me ranting on about gangs of white lads terrorizing town and city centres all over Britain on a Saturday afternoon, smashing pubs and each other while there at it. Question, what does this and the way football fans act abroad say to you about English culture?
Those of us who are little bit more enlightened and willing to see the larger picture, will recognise this as the actions of a minority and not reflective of an entire race of people, maybe you should try it occaisionally.
Because English economic migrants are tolerated in the countries they go to. People have been migrating and moving around the world for economic reasons for thousands of years, its human nature.
My parents were economic migrants, part of a generation of West Indians who were encouraged to come to this country by both the Conservative and Labour governments in the 50s and 60s. The reasons because Britain needed their labour.
Is is any coincidence that Asians from textile producing areas in India and Pakistan ended up in textile producing areas in the North West?
Kermit said "his Grandmother was poor" first and that he see's no one helping them. Since when did Help the Aged or Meals on Wheels give them more money so that they can afford to leave their heating on in the middle of winter when its freezing ? or give them more money just to let them have their last few years on this earth not in poverty ?
Its all to do with money and im sorry but your comment re Meals on Wheels really was a joke. You obviously have never had any dealings with elderly people have you ?
Yeh thats because I can't seem to think of any white christian cultures that promote terrorism in their own country and around the world. Funny that isn't it?
You see, now that's funny...
White, christian Americans funded the IRA.
White, christian Irishmen were the IRA (or UVF or... etc)
The IRA directly supports terrorism in Colombia and Israel (as examples)...
Away from our shores we could talk about the ETA terrorists in Spain, or US Governmental support for terrorism around the world - including their support of Bin Laden (pre-Al Qaeda).
I think it's time for you to be quiet now, don't you?
Perhaps if a lot of the Western World didnt continually piss on a lot of Muslim countries we wouldnt be in this situation. The West is reaping what we have sown. Our failure to do anything about Israel, our funding of extreme Muslim groups when it served our purposes, our funding of people like Sadam, the list goes on.
Oh and not to mention all the troubles in Ireland, they were Christians last time I checked.
The Israel situation is a tricky one because it can be looked upon from many viewpoints. You can ask why the governments of the Western world had the right to just create a new state by taking a chunk out of Palestine? Or you could say that the Israelites had their land taken away from them thousands of years ago and have been persecuted in the intervening period. It is certainly true that the governments of the Western wolrd should be doing more to control and ease the situation in Israel, however.
I was unaware that the US government supported Bin-laden pre Al-Qaeda. Was this during the Soviet-Afghan war?
In fact it was the surface to air missiles that they sent to them which really changed the course of the war because up until then the Soviets had a huge advantage with helicopters.
It is also these missiles that were used against the Allied forces when they invaded to try and get rid of the very same people.
But you will find that most of those are splinter groups chasing the same cause. Remember we have IRA, Continuity IRA, Real IRA, INLA etc - and that's just one cause, we also have numerous other groups fighting to maintain the Union.
As I said we also have ETA in France and Spain, different goals.
You could include Bader-Meinhoff (Germany) and November 17th (Greece) but I didn't because they aren't (to my knowledge) Christian...
You could also look back at our history and see what white christians did to most of the world in the 19th and 20th Centuries, and ask yourself whether that was a form of terrorism...
Yes, in part. Just as the "west" supported Saddam on the basis that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
You would do well to also look at links with Pinochet and several other "dodgy" aspects of US/South American work.
Also look at where the Cuban Exiles trained for their fight against Castro...
As for taking over the American Embassy, do you know how defended that place is? Have you been there? I have, on three occations for drinks and nibbles (they do good snacks) and the place is like a fortress.
And aside from that, "fellow countrymen to join in with their struggle" what kind of talk is that? And what would they do exactly, this huge army of terrorists lying in wait that you seem to think are out there, all of them head down to the Embassy?
I speak hypothetically. Less than a quarter is true no matter how vague this figure is. And it doesn't necessarily have to be the American embassy or any embassy. Any sort of government or official building in London could be attacked and the effect would be the same.
Is Isreal modern enough?
And do you really think if a group of terrorists broke into the US embassy (for the nice nibbles) huge numbers of people, who up until then were just getting on with their life would rise up against the state? They'd just drop everything and head out into the street? To do what exactly?
Whoa, hang on a second. Are you suggesting that they don't think for themselves? That they would be incapable of saying - actually no thanks, we don't want to join your cruscade?
Remember that the IRA (et al.) were calling for their countrymen to join them, and few have or did. Why do you think that it would be different for Muslims etc?
Seems to me like you are suffering from "Star Wars Syndrome"... you seem to see terrorists hiding everywhere and this scares you.
"Fear leads to Anger
Anger leads to Hate..."
Perhaps if you took a look around you would find that a miniscule percentage (nowhere near a quarter FFS) of the World's population, or even Arabs are even interested in terrorism or support terrorist actions.
How do you identify them then? Do they wear a big sign, is it on their passport (Occupation: International Terrorist? Do they have AK-47s in their hand luggage?
One thing which the Irish Troubles should have taught you are that terrorist and non-terrorist look exactly the same.
You can NEVER stop terrorism by force, it does not work like that, if you need examples look at N.Ireland, look at Palestine, the list goes on.
Terrorism is a "tool", a means of advancing (albeit wrongly) the agenda or governing political/social/ideological conceptualisation of the groups or individuals who employ it as a methodology.
Terrorism is also subjective insofar as it is only terrorism to those on the receiving end of its fallout. As such, many nations and citizens can rightfully point to our own imperialist inspired militancy, (bombings, invasions, occupations) as terrorist acts for the sheer instability and insecurity they they brought to countless numbers around the globe.
Then there are also the machinations of our own security agencies which have a history (largely unreported and poopooed as myth by mainstream press, but no less actual and ongoing) all their own with deleterious effects upon those nations or individuals in their sights.
All in all, this whole cry of "the world is now a vastly different place post-9/11!" is little more than a clever ruse for misdirecting public opinion (such as is daily in observance here and in numerous other boards) into outright or at the very least tacit support for a long awaited regression in the halls of power away from diplomacy and adherence to international law back to the principles of flagrant nationlism and brute force.
Sadly, the greatest threat to future global and domestic peace and security lies predominantly with our own leaders and MIC's.
No, the world hasn't changed. The mainstream spin has merely become more plausible.
I think it's been proven in the last 2 years that the world it's at much graver danger from Christian crusaders (instigated by a lunatic who claims God talks to him and who is in charge of the most powerful armed forces in the world) than it could possibly be from two mad mullahs and the four desperadoes prepared to follow their orders.
Not that I should have to explain this, but contrary to your disgusting insinuations the immense majority of the Muslim community are decent people and capable of telling right from wrong, and of dismissing any calls for jihads and action against the West mad mullahs might make as bollocks.
If only I could say the same of the BNP fodder that seems to plague this country...
This single act has made so many americans wake up to the fact that people hate them that they feel something must be done. Just look at the opinion polls before the war, loads of people thought that Sadam was linked to the attacks.
The Patriot Act would have been much harder to push through if it had not been for 11/9, and the same with the terrorist legislation here.
The invasion of Afganistan wouldnt have happened, and quite probably not the attack on Iraq.
The world has changed a great deal, but, I do think you are right in terms of terrorism not changing, its always been there and always will.
Fuck you basically. You have no fucking idea about my life so you can stick your assumptions.
I've been poor most of my life, so i know what its like. Kermit said that no one helps pensioners, I corrected him. Thats it.
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
IRA? UDA? INLA? US government supporting the Contra's? US govermnent supporting Suharto's regime in Indonesia? Or the US supporting Pinochet in Chile? Or ETA in Spain? Or C18 in the UK?
Ignorant fuckwit.