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So the fact that afro-carribean males actually achieve some of the best results in first schools and its only in high schools that they seem to fail doesn't tell us anything? Do you not think that experience of racism in society, of the media and people like you telling them that they won't amount to anything is significant? Do you not think that if society tells people they will fail often enough then they will not come to believe it?
If the only images that society presents to people growing up is of them being criminals or sportsmen then its not really any surprise that they are failing academically.
Thats the trouble with you right wingers - your analysis is simplistic in the extreme and fails to take so many factors into account. But thats OK innit 'cos theres no such thing as society is there? :rolleyes:
For the 3rd time - ITS ABOUT CONTEXT
sheesh, you're hard work :rolleyes:
So you don't think that society plays any role in how people turn out? You don't think that everything happens in a social context?
Errrrr...OK... :rolleyes:
dont get ya knickers in a twist :rolleyes:
The scenario i set, care to make comment on that ? Id be very curious as to what you think would happen here if I did say them things.
See? Its all about context.
Right I agree about it being in context. So lets assume Ive been having a debate with Mr Roll (who I said was black for this thing), and I say "fuck off you black bastard" because he genuinely was getting on my nerves and I was fed up of repeating myself to him. Then is it right that I be banned from a site like this ? bearing in mind he is black and bear in mind I could get away with calling you an English bastard and not get banned. They would both be said in the same context, I could be pissed off with you and him but because I add the word 'black' I get banned.
just seems a touch unfair to me. This is what i mean about taking things too far. I mean that my freedom of speech even here is limited because by adding one word which happens to be 'black' can get me banned. Having said that if I was not banned then people like the moderators would also have it from the other side i.e people saying i made a racist remark so why wasnt i banned.
you just cant win either way tbh.
The term "black bastard", coming from a white person, has lots of connotations of racism, of unequal power relations, it brings to mind NF marches, "No Blacks, No Irish" signs in the 70's, BNP marches, C18 grafitti, the abuse that black people get almost every day from white people. The phrase "English bastard", especially coming from someone who is white and English themselves carries no such connotations.
Do you get it now?
Yes, he is a brutal racist dictator.
You obviously aint reading what i said. I DID say that if i said it on these boards they would both be in the same context. ok then lets change it slightly, supposing I was having a bit of a heated discussion with you and you are a Cockney, I then say " Fuck off you Cockney bastard" would you think thats any different ? do you think I would be banned for saying that or do you think I would get a warning ?
Im just trying to get you to see things from a different angle but to be honest i dont think its working. You dont seem to want to actually even try to see things from different angles.
No.
Endless amounts of boosterism, Black history Month, for example, why shouln't asians, greeks etc have their history Month or should they be grateful/happy to come under the Black umbrella? Stupid waste of time/money anyway. Irritating and contrived tv roles, usually of moral authority eg The Bill (don't laugh), in Eastenders the Black GP.Give us a break, please
Except that there is no way of getting around the fact that the two things are unequal in social context.
Yes, its different. Because there is not a history of abuse and discrimination against cockneys in the same way.
Theres no point in looking at things from an angle that is meaningless, silly and discounts history, language, politics, culture, society and power. Everything, and I mean everything exists in these contexts.
So society and the media have no influence on anything?
Errrr....OK. Tell that to sociologists, politicians, psychologists, advertisers, marketing executives, in fact anyone apart from racist apologists like yourself.
NO its called debating. Its looking at things from different view points thats how we get different opinions and see things from different angles. Thats how we learn about things and thats what we call being mature because we can listen to what other people have to say and also take on board what they say, not just sweep what someone else has to say under the carpet because you know best.
When I see things from different angles it can change my view, you wanna try looking at things from other peoples perspective, you never know you might even change your mind on a few things.
Anyway in conclusion, there is racism about I agree with that statement but i still feel that people are too quick to say 'racism', i feel that some people abuse it and make out they have been verbally abused and said it was racist. I also feel that sometimes if a fight errupts just because one side is black and the other side is white then people assume that it was racially motivated.
Don't seem to having any influence on those GCSE grades, school exclusions, ...
Better step up the boosterism, make it Black history Month every month, half the Cabinet should be black, why no black PM by now, you fashishts?
Yes, I know what debating is. :rolleyes:
When I said "meaningless", I meant that it is meaningless to discuss these things without looking at the wider social, cultural and political context, because nothing exists in a vacuum. We are all affected by the world around us. You have to remember how language works as well - it is many layered, can have many connotations, and not just the ones intended by the author either.
But yes, I agree that some people probably play the race card in the wrong situation, I just think it happens a lot less than you think it does.
Please try and engage with the debate. :rolleyes:
Says who? I'd rather watch black history, where one can learn about courage and pride, than the usual 'white' history we're inundated with throughout the year- history that usually consists of royal inbreeding and military "heroes" killing johnny foreigner by the million for Queen and Country.
There might be irritating to you (and I think we can all guess why would you find it irritating) but there aren't irritating to anyone else outside the BNP faithful
What we shouldn't laugh at? At the concept of a black person having moral authority? Or of holding a position of responsibility that includes law abiding? Please, do reply to this even if you ignore the rest... I'm very curious indeed to find out what could it be laughable about a black person being a policeman and having a position of moral authority.
I think you should be the one giving everyone else a break. If Hitler were alive and posting here today you'd fucking make him blush.
its a lot more subtle than that though. black friends of mine talk about how when they are walking down the street at night, white people will cross over the road to avoid them, how white people constantly ask them for drugs at parties, how some white people are automatically scared of talking to them in pubs or parties, how there are so many assumptions about them because of they way black culture is portrayed in the media etc.
I know, that as a white middle class(ish) person, i have no idea what its like...but have you ever gone to a party or club where the majority of people are black and felt a bit intimidated? I know I have in the past, and I guess this is how a lot of black people feel a lot of the time in mainstream white culture.
I'm also aware of how what I just wrote could sound patronising...its a complicated subject...something which solo et al seem to forget...
Again, its about context. I will talk a different way to my black mates in the pub to the way I will talk amongst people I don't know...
Why not, after seeing the BBC2 doc on afro carrib violenceagainst Kosovans in schools, such was my repulsion of the mindless violence meted out, my sympathy was for the Kosovans. Why should Asian and Greeks be held in a lesser regard than Blacks?No reason at all
So the man who walked isaac Newtons dog, well he didn't look all that White. Oh yeah, MLK,Ghandi (see above) yeah sure
The Bill Judge John Deed (crap) a 'butter wouldn't melt in his mouth' Black actor , plummy, on top of his brief. Contrived and unnecessary to the plot, there for BBC Pc reasons
The Bill :UK cop equv to MLK. Risible. Eastenders, in my travels round London, I've yet to encounter a male afro carrib GP, but there he was (useless actor, hence gone)
It's brainwashing and the woorying thing, it'll probably work
The thing is I would to that with anyone. Sometimes on a night I walk home and I purposely slow down so the person can get in front of me, or I will cross the road just so I can see what they are doing.
Do you not think that is something which is more because of todays society and regardless of sex/age your not safe out on a night from anyone ?
I would have thought it was obvious my post was in response to solo's "what's the point of black history, it's outrageous" tirade. What's the point of any history for that matter?
I haven't heard solo complain about history programmes about white people. I think it's fair to assume he doesn't consider 'white' history "a stupid waste of time/money", but somehow black history is different in his eye. So I was just wondering what's so wonderful about white history, much of which indeed consists of royal affairs, wars, Empires and military campaigns, and what is so awful of black history to warrant his "stupid waste of time/money" comment.
Well, I wasn't really wondering because I think we all know where solo is coming from.