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God?

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
My rant:

http://utterlycray.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/what-about-god.html

im so stuck and have no idea what to think :/
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I gave your blog a bit of a read. In it you ask that if God loved the world so much why was there so much shit happening.
    I've always believed in free will, God gave us a world to live on but it's up to us what we do with it. Unfortunately, being human we can't do anything but continually fuck up.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    it just seems incredibly cruel to put us on this earth when everything ends in suffering and death. i cant seem to get my head round it, although it may well be the depression talking!
    and jojo2012- its been a year and a half, and i used to cry out to god all the time, and after a few months i kind of gave up. i still believe theres a god, just at the moment I am pretty angry with him, and im questioning why he would ever create a world when people are destined to suffer.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There is no God.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote: »
    There is no God.

    Perhaps explaining your journey on how you came to that conclusion may prove a helpful experience here.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Purple_roo wrote: »
    Perhaps explaining your journey on how you came to that conclusion may prove a helpful experience here.

    I'm not sure how I can explain it. But mostly, there's no evidence for it, all the religious material is corrupted and made up. I recognise that there's also no hard evidence that there isn't a God. But every time in history, that there has been something we didn't understand, it's turned out to be NOT MAGIC.

    Back in the day lightning was Thor and thunder was the striking of his mighty hammer. Now we know that it's a static electrical charge built up by particles in the atmosphere.
    Back in the day, the Sun was pushed across the sky by a giant dung beetle and the sky was held up by the titan Atlas. Now we know that the Earth orbits the Sun.
    I know science, and understand it, and frankly there is so much in the universe that is just amazeballs, I don't need to make up a magic sky pixie who may or may not like me and who sends good things to reward me and bad things to punish/test me.
    Fuck me Sam, what are the odds that of history?s endless parade of gods that the God you just happened to be taught to believe in is the actual one and he digs on healing, but the AIDS-ridden African nations, the victims of the plague or the flood-addled Asians, but healthy, privately-insured Australians with common and curable corneal degeneration?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    see, i cant see why he would let us suffer. but then again, you cannot prove that there is no god, as you cannot search the entire universe.. its hard to prove either way to be honest
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    AliceF wrote: »
    see, i cant see why he would let us suffer. but then again, you cannot prove that there is no god, as you cannot search the entire universe.. its hard to prove either way to be honest

    Well, traditionally it's impossible to prove a negative. So it wouldn't be possible to prove there is no god. However, everything that is said to be an affect of a god has shown to not be.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote: »
    Well, traditionally it's impossible to prove a negative. So it wouldn't be possible to prove there is no god. However, everything that is said to be an effect of a god has shown to not be.

    That's a very difficult assertion. It is highly likely that the wind is not God farting. Unless God's farts are a complex weather event that creates different areas of atmospheric pressure. ;)

    The problem with causality as a philosophical concept is that it never really stops. So the Big Bang is our best guess for what started the universe as we know it, but what caused the Big Bang? And what caused whatever caused that? An enquiring mind will always come up with more questions than answers, that's the joy of enquiry, whether it's scientific, philosophical or theological.

    Religion is not just the purview of irrational people who don't like science. And there are a huge number of people who would be as happy to talk about Aslan or Vishnu as they are about Jesus because it's about accessing a number of truths (note the small 't'!) about the world and about God.

    As to why there is suffering, there is no straightforward answer. I don't subscribe to the "Fall" myth any more than I do to Pandora's Box except inasmuch as they're helpful in telling us about the nature of humanity.

    There is another theory that says that pain and suffering are necessary to access the full joy of existence, and here I feel bound to quote my current favourite one-liner philosopher, the novelist John Green:
    This is an old argument in the field of thinking about suffering and its stupidity and lack of sophistication could be plumbed for centuries but suffice it to say that the existence of broccoli does not, in any way, affect the taste of chocolate.
    (from The Fault in our Stars)

    My hesitant and far-from-fully-formed view is that there are some questions to which there can be no answer. That suffering is not so much "allowed" as inevitable. I also think that in my own life it has transformed my character for the better. I don't know if I see "design" in that or not but it's true for me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend, that's a good post, but I was more referring to your personal journey through your upbringing, life events, and various wiggles along the path.

    I had a Christian upbringing, but I don't identify as Christian. If I have to label, I'm agnostic. I dislike organised religion as it causes a lot of hatred and wars, and I'm also of the opinion that most 'religious' material has been transcribed/compiled by humans and as such is subject to their filters and/or agendas (i.e. homosexuality was something the oppressors of the time did and therefore was bad and entered into the bible as a bad thing.) I'm much more of the belief that any faith you have is personal between you and whatever you believe in, and that no one has the right to tell you otherwise.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Purple_roo wrote: »
    Fiend, that's a good post, but I was more referring to your personal journey through your upbringing, life events, and various wiggles along the path.

    I wasn't brought up religiously, I suppose I have an approximately CofE background but we didn't do church. My mother was a Christian until she was about 21, and returned to her faith before she died. I was a committed Christian from about 17 to about 21. I got involved with it primarily because I fancied someone and wanted to spend more time with her. It helped with my loneliness so long as I didn't mention being a homo.

    When I was thrown out of my church for being gay, and was told that all the other churches in the area would be told not to accept me. I never really went back to church and still overwhelmingly tend to hate being in them due to the residual trauma.

    I was cast away from and then grew out of being religious. I am now more convinced than ever that there isn't a God.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The question is not whether there is a god or not, but;

    Can we trust the major religions of this world which were introduced and sustained, by corrupt governments / empires?

    We must remember, only of late, do we see humans opening their
    minds eye to all this corruption of the church & state.

    Hence falling church attendance.

    So why did we not wake up, 2000 years ago when christianity was
    first introduced?

    We did.....to paganism. This religion caused the revolts. Paganism
    is evil and full of evil elements such as human / animal sacrifice.

    We protested this and cornered the Roman Empire.
    So Constantine the devil, introduced Christianity.

    Just like now, in a less violent manner,
    we are waking up to christianity without even knowing it.


    The royals know this hence they are loosing grip, hence they
    are forcing the banks and economy and society into harsh
    conditions etc.... to further take our minds off what is happening
    to us as a people.

    Without the grip of the royals ( who have always represented god )
    and their religion, our wisdom will grow and we will see / expose
    this devil monarchy which is destroying the world.

    Again, hence why they are now distracting us.


    Please, to finish, if you feel down, anytime, always remember;

    1) The individual human spirit develops over ~60 billion years. Half in , half out of body.
    2) Spiritual development is the gaining of wisdom(love).
    3) The major religions of this world were introduced and sustained, by corrupt governments / empires.
    4) Only when the spirit is free, can it develop and progress in this life, for the next.
    5) Human nature is spiritual. The rulers substitute this urge with a religion. We have been locked in.
    6) Rulers with the help of freemasons ( aka Egyptian priests) , manipulate society to serve their interests.
    With spiritual development ( wisdom ) we would see this.
    Hence why they used religion in first place ( Ancient Egypt )
    We must understand, for 10,000 years we have been locked in.
    7) Only when we disconnect the spirit, will human technology and culture change for the better, as a result of wisdom.
    6) No being/entity existing within the universe, is above nature's laws.( such as a god )
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How can the human spirit develop over ~60 billion years when the universe is only approximately 14 billion years old?

    Furthermore what you've said about paganism is completely false. Christianity was imposed on most local pagan religions, and corrupted their festivals to aid the acceptance of it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    fluxed wrote: »
    The question is not whether there is a god or not

    Yes, it is. Now fuck twat
  • *Seany**Seany* Moddin' Posts: 51
    Perhaps it's worth remembering that there is a difference between the idea of a God, and the idea of organised religion and how such religions represent God.

    i.e. many see religion and faith as different things.

    Fluxed, it looks like you're approaching this debate from the assumption that to believe in a God you must belief what religions say about him/her/it.
    This debate seems to be more about the idea of God in it's simplest of senses.

    Rubberskin, I can appreciate you might be frustrated with the way the conversation is going, but it'd be cool if we kept the name-calling to an absolute minimum if at all possible.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sean is right that there is a difference between the literal idea of a God and the notion of God as a metaphor or device to use allegorically to help people understand themselves, their existence and how to live their lives.

    Religion would actually have no functional difference in society whether there is a literal god or not. Believing in something that does exist but will never impact you except for your belief, vs believing in something that does not exist so the only impact is your belief in it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I see this thread, and from reading the OP's link, it's about her (i assume her because of the username) belief in God being tested because of the crap time she's having and the more general 'If God exists, why do bad things happen to good people'.

    Now that, though i may not take part much, is interesting to me and my own belief system and i for one don't want it derailed into another freemasons/Egyptians/corrupt monarchy thread because flux's other threads have been closed.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You can't disprove God but that's not a particularly interesting stand point. 'Is it likely God exists' seems to be a more useful question. And to me the world looks remarkably like a world would do if there were no benevolent dictator at the reins. A malevolent one, perhaps...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't believe in religion they're man made. I don't think any god came and said you know, "Guess what we're a better religion than that one." I believe in humanity, in doing good deeds, in being kind and helpful.
    Neither am I sure of existence of God but, I do believe in super power, super natural and that there's something that's beyond our understanding, beyond science too or probably we still aren't technologically advanced to prove its existence or non existence.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    RubberSkin wrote: »
    Yes, it is. Now fuck twat

    now now, children.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote: »
    How can the human spirit develop over ~60 billion years when the universe is only approximately 14 billion years old?

    Furthermore what you've said about paganism is completely false. Christianity was imposed on most local pagan religions, and corrupted their festivals to aid the acceptance of it.

    It time, science will show us the modern prophet is correct,
    that the universe cycles and each cycle last for trillions of years.

    You are not absorbing what i am saying about paganism -
    else you would not call it false.

    The source of Paganism was the first relgion of salvation.

    First religion of salvation, devised by the founders ( advanced race )

    1) Pharaoh kings relayed the laws of their 'founders' via pagan priests
    all around the world.
    2) The truth is partly told in terms of good behavior refining the spirit. However, upon death of the present body, those 'founders' had the power to destroy the soul.
    3) The founders took the credit for natures work.
    4) Evil aspects such as slaves, human sacrifice.
    5) The religon is magical(science) & mystical.
    6) Slave version & secretive royal version.
    7) A new god attributed to any new natural phenomenon.
    8) A Priest was also a Judge and an interpreter of the law.
    9) The Egyptian Mysteries were the centre of organized culture,
    and the recognized source of education in the ancient world.

    Rulers method

    1) Be a compliant citizen and loyal to the royal family, and the
    'founders' will allow you to be re-incarnated.
    Else they will destory your soul and hence remove any hope of the thereafter.
    2) Using hieroglyphics via paganism, all bicameral visitors into early Egypt, became aware of themselves but in a mystical mental background. This made us superstitious beings.


    Second religion of salvation ( AD )
    1) Pharaohs now call themselves emperors. Later, kings.
    2) Greece takes credit for Egyptian science & literature.
    Also disconnect new world from old ( Rome from Egypt )
    3) Spiritual truths dropped.
    4) Human sacrifice dropped.
    5) Kings make no mention of 'founders' in this religion.
    6) Dropped reincarnation.
    7) One god makes all the decisions and takes the credit for natures work.
    8) Early on, a priest was also a Judge and an interpreter of the law.

    Rulers method
    1) Be a compliant citizen and loyal to the royal family, and the
    god will allow you( character included? ) into heaven.
    Else your soul will go to hell and hence remove any hope of the thereafter.
    2) All Natural phenomena attributed to one god.
    3) Early on, the church was the centre of organized culture,
    and the recognized source of education.


    Things in common between the two ( spanning 10,000 years of royal dynasties );

    1) The family of rulers and its traditions and jubilee's.
    2) The rulers introduce the relgion and head it.
    3) The cross.
    4) Active indocrination.( Education and community pre 1980 )
    5) Inserted to block spiritual freedom & true independence.
    6) Priests involved with law & justice.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    fluxed wrote: »
    It time, science will show us the modern prophet is correct

    What modern prophet?
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    Please don't derail the thread.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    *Seany* wrote: »
    Fluxed, it looks like you're approaching this debate from the assumption that to believe in a God you must belief what religions say about him/her/it.
    This debate seems to be more about the idea of God in it's simplest of senses.

    The planet Venus may look like a star, but it is not a star.

    What i am saying, all i am saying here is ask yourself with reason,
    who introduced the salvation relgions and why?

    Can we trust those governments/empires?
  • Annaarrr!!Annaarrr!! Noob Posts: 876
    Please don't derail the thread.
    Too late!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Annaarrr!! wrote: »
    Too late!

    Oh the humanity !
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    fluxed wrote: »
    The planet Venus may look like a star, but it is not a star.

    What i am saying, all i am saying here is ask yourself with reason,
    who introduced the salvation relgions and why?

    Can we trust those governments/empires?

    Go on tell us?! Was it the freemasons? I was under the impression my church was founded by William and Catherine Booth in the 1800s... and that it is based on the teachings of Jesus.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fluxed, seriously fuck off. This was one person's story about losing their faith in God and the rest of us relating to that in some way. It was going fine until you chimed in again with freemasonry and conspiracy theories. There is something you need to know about freemasonry and conspiracy theories. Nobody here gives a shit especially if they're coming from someone who likes hijacking threads.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    AliceF wrote: »
    My rant:

    http://utterlycray.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/what-about-god.html

    im so stuck and have no idea what to think :/

    The modern prophet;

    ''The term "God" has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the creation of the world or the universe, stars, galaxies and the like, for the expression "God" has existed in the vastness of the universe for billions of years, from ancient times to the present, and it represents nothing more than the title of a person. Initially this title was "Ishwish" which means "God" when translated into our languages. But Ishwish, respectively god, is nothing more than another term for "King of Wisdom." It is a purely human title assigned to humans who were particularly knowledgeable, wise, and who possessed great mastery in everything. ''

    Please, consider the words from prophets in the past and how they were implemented,
    into the books.

    I do not trust the peole who did the implementing.
    There is a modern prophet, who does not get involved with the monarchy of any country.
    He tells us the truth. And we are very special beings, never forget that.

    http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Who_or_what_is_God%3F
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You didn't really answer the question, who is the modern prophet? And as an additional, why is (s)he to be trusted?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The people on here, swearing when there are people who
    are asking for help, are acting very childish and inconsiderate.

    Grow up.

    Also, let this reflect the competence of the moderation.
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