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However also worth considering the two sides of labelling. On one side it can be divisive and it's incredibly difficult to define a single term that covers many different views. On the other hand it's often an inherently empowering exercise to bring together those different views under one banner - especially where you've more consensus than disagreement.
As I rule I try to avoid labels, either my own or accepting them from others. In my experience they get in the way of discussing the meat of a matter - you end up only accepting the label on the proviso of endless caveats. Feminism, probably more than a lot of topics, conjures up a lot of preconceptions and comes lumbering into the room laden down with baggage. As I believe in the idea of social and political equality between the sexes, it's often a lot easier to say that. If there are specific issues beyond that I'd rather discuss them on a case-by-case basis.
Have to say, I have never witnessed such a thing. I know lots of feminists, and we all love having doors held open for us! I don't see the connection, and I would be surprised if anyone else did.
Are you a mother, incidentally geneve?
It is interesting to note that having been said wobbly, leaky woman during and after pregnancy, I didn't get the impression that most people think this is perfectly normal. Like Thunderstruck, they think it is disgusting. They are appalled when you talk about it, and disapprove when you want to feed your baby in public.
Tampon adverts in the US have recently been banned from using the word vagina. The whole point isn't that everyone else thinks women's bodies are normal and natural, and feminists insist in 'unnecessarily hyping it up' as you say. Rather, people seem to think it's something to be disgusted or ashamed of, so we are afraid of even mentioning the word vagina. It is feminists who are pointing out the normality and naturalness of it all, while people like you run away screaming in disgust.
Said as only someone who has never gone through it can.
Every woman who gives birth should be celebrated for it. It's a major feat, physically on a par with running a marathon, and at the end of it you have brought new life into the world which everyone benefits from - my children are the next generation of workers and taxpayers, apart from anything else.
And I tell you what, I bloody well do deserve to be celebrated. 27 hours of labour and a third degree tear with my first - I deserve a fucking trophy and a parade!
And as Jim said, that's not to mention the many women worldwide who don't survive it.
You're a real charmer, aren't you?!
What on earth is your point? That running marathons is a piece of piss?
ETA im not saying it should be death defying but i would highly contest the idea they are easy
Also you kinda did, peice of piss = easy
He didn't run any marathons.
I can't work out whether you are deliberately obnoxious and obtuse, or a bit dim. Either way, I'm the idiot for trying to have an intelligent and reasoned debate with you.
I have never run a marathon but I admire your achievement and think it is a real physical feat, you must be very proud of yourself, and rightly so.
I have never said anyone should have two minutes silence for me because I underwent two long, difficult and painful labours. But how you can dare to denigrate or belittle it, when you have never been through it yourself, is beyond me. You are both ignorant and arrogant in the extreme. Women all over the world die in childbirth. Going through pregnancy takes its toll on your body in a long lasting, permanent way.
And now I retire from this pointless discussion with you.
But I do object to your remarkably dismissive and belittling attitude towards things you don't understand. Why be so sneering and dismissive? I am genuinely in awe of you and your marathon running, and am massively impressed by it. It might be easy for all I know! But it doesn't look it, and I'm amazed at your achievement. The fact that Eddie Izzard ran 48 in a row or whatever it was doesn't make me think running one must be easy.
I find your opposite reaction to women having babies very odd and quite arrogant, that's all. A little humility wouldn't go amiss!
You can think that but whilst your here we'd ask you to respect the rules we've got in place. We believe they encourage rather than restrict debate and whilst there can be some leeway we do require them to be followed.
Yes, you kinda did - you agreed to that interpretation of your statement.
I know ultra-marathon runners, but they don't describe marathons as easy - merely easier.
But don't worry about being consistent.
I'm not sure I completely agree.
Shouldn't it be the midwife who is celebrate and given a parade for getting you (and baby) through it alive, given that every birth is a life or death situation?
Surely biology takes over most of your actions, to a great extent?
Are they? Why?
There part of me that agrees with geneve here. I have those concerns too but I doubt I can be described as a feminist. Is that because I believe that everyone should have rights in each of those areas, whether male or female whereas feminist may only be interested in female rights in those issues?
If we look at an issue whilst recognising a gendered power structure, it falls within feminisms' remit. Feminisms are now looking at masculinities, hegemonic ideals of masculinity and power formations in masculinities. But you knew that right?
When we celebrate the mother, we celebrate the mother as a whole, which includes her biology.
This celebration doesn't detract from the appreciation of the extremely dedicated support of midwives - nor that of and nurses and consultants