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How do we view feminism?

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
Perhaps it would help you to think of feminism as feminismS, some people like to think of it in terms of waves, where others prefer to think of interweaving movements with splinter sensibilities.

Wanting gender to not be a statement is... a feminist notion, or at least it can be -perhaps you can expand what you mean geneve?

What I find frustrating about your posts is that you seem to think that 'feminist' is a negative thing, and yet you have views, want freedom and choice for yourself over childrearing, work conditions, buying a property etc. To me, these are all feminist concerns.
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Is there anything to fight about? How would people know that other people agreed with them if everybody was too afriad to 'rant' and make their voice heard?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You've got your head buried in the sand if you think child care and reproductive freedom are just every day concerns and not specifically feminist issues.

    And no one is ranting about anything, but that's a rather nice, loaded, dismissive term for you to use, one that's frequently used to discredit anyone who voices feminist views.

    But anyway, I can see there's no point debating anything with you, and as I find you pretty unpleasant in general, I think I'll make good use of the ignore function.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yay! And there you are, with your feminist voice, that waasn't so bad now was it?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How is a concern based on gender not feminism? Perhaps this is where the main crux of the problem people are having in identifying with your views, you don't think of feminisms in the same way as we do.

    Like I was saying about the 'waves' or movements, there is not just one aim or goal with feminism, not just one opinion. It might interest you to look at 'equality-feminism' or other feminisms where people think that the aims of the first and second 'waves' have been achieved, and so concern has shifted to things like men and maternity leave so that equality for the genders looks at both (I mean all but for simplicity I'll say both) genders.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I personally found it disgusting rather than empowering but hey ho, girl power and all that shite.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just out of interest geneve if as you claim gender and labels are so irrelevant to you, why did you feel the need to fill in the gender box on your profile?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    geneve wrote: »
    I don't like to think of my views as anything other than my own. Perhaps some of views align with yours, perhaps others go complete against them.
    For sure I find it pretty sad that anyone has made you feel that wobbliness and leakage is so beyond that norm that it can be a statement.

    So, do you shave your legs, armpits or anywhere?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    geneve wrote: »
    I don't feel the need to force my gender on anyone, it's a fact, it's not irrelevant but it's also not important. I really coudn't give two hoots.

    That's a perfectly valid point - it's worth remembering that to have a useful debate within our rules you don't need to undermine other opinions to express your own.

    Which goes for all sides of this inevitably heated debate...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    im gonna make a big assumption and geneve please correct me if im wrong. but i think your issue isnt so much with these 'concerns' but that you dislike the word 'feminism'. feminism itself is a pretty loaded word and can carry unfair and negative connotations which is pretty sad. despite forgetting ALL of my sociology lessons i do know that there are quite a few types of feminism that came about in several waves. the power of wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

    it's a shame that you have such a negative view of feminism. i think it's unfair of you to disparage so many viewpoints in favour of calling them 'rants'. if no one 'ranted' or 'aired their views' then how would anything be achieved?

    if you think that there is no need to 'rant' then take a gander at kaff's thread. i'll post the link here in a sec..
    edit here: http://vbulletin.thesite.org/showthread.php?t=140864
  • **helen****helen** Mod malarkist Posts: 9,235 Boards Champion
    im gonna make a big assumption and geneve please correct me if im wrong. but i think your issue isnt so much with these 'concerns' but that you dislike the word 'feminism'.

    It's not uncommon - great rant about it here - http://www.thesite.org/community/reallife/rants/feministfury

    :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I was just wondering about your leaky body, because how we conduct our personal lives is shaped by the political. Although, I'm not actually interested in your body, it was a question more to raise that point -the link between the personal and the political.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,026 I eat threads for breakfast
    katralla wrote: »
    So, do you shave your legs, armpits or anywhere?

    are all feminists hairy?
    this is not strictly a female issue. i shave my face because socially that is considered the norm. both men and women feel social pressures to look good.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    geneve wrote: »
    I don't feel the need to force my gender on anyone, it's a fact, it's not irrelevant but it's also not important.

    Actually sex and gender are not one of the same; while your sex is fixed gender isn't.
    geneve wrote:
    I really coudn't give two hoots.

    I just think it's interesting how you say you 'couldn't give two hoots' yet felt the need to fill out the gender box which was optional on your profile page. I mean for someone who doesn't give 'two hoots' you're making a pretty clear statement.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i didnt think feminism was all about women, but more for equal rights between the sexes (at least some parts of it is).

    i think the 'term' feminism is the big problem really. change the naaame!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    are all feminists hairy?
    chuckle
    Skive wrote: »
    this is not strictly a female issue.
    I agree
    Skive wrote: »
    i shave my face because socially that is considered the norm. both men and women feel social pressures to look good.
    I agree
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    geneve wrote: »
    Clementine, look at the post you linked... I think Kaff's in the wrong.

    And yeah the word is definately puttine me off. The word, the way people throw it around as weight in an argument and use it to define themselves. I really don't see that women have a whole lot to argue or rant about in their situations in Western Society today.

    oh. you hadnt responded so i assumed she had answered your question. if you dont agree with that then what about this part?

    quoted from kaff:
    Well, I had problems in the past because they used to make comments about us being useless cause it was just a matter of time before we got married and had babies. And they once said they'd never recruit a woman of childbearing age into a managerial position cause then she'd just leave to have a baby.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    geneve wrote: »
    It's not a statement, it's a box, you could even pick apart the word I used to denote my gender. You're the one who is using it as a basis of an argument. Good lord...

    A box that was optional, if you don't like labels and see gender as irrelevant why fill it in?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think you missed my point and failed to see the irony....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think you missed my point and failed to see the irony....

    Geneve ticking ‘female’ when signing up to TheSite is hardly a knock down argument against her questioning the usefulness of labelling oneself ‘a feminist’. In fact, it’s a pretty ridiculous refutation.
  • **helen****helen** Mod malarkist Posts: 9,235 Boards Champion
    Ok, let's get some perspective here on both sides...

    Girl afraid, I see where your coming from, but labouring the point about something geneve genuinely probably didn't think about or consider is probably not the best way to challenge someone's perceptions of gender importance.

    geneve, this is a forum for young adults, not a playground (I think that's the last time I heard the word loon) and as Jim said, it's perfectly possible to get your point across without resorting to insults.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Geneve ticking ‘female’ when signing up to TheSite is hardly a knock down argument against her questioning the usefulness of labelling oneself ‘a feminist’. In fact, it’s a pretty ridiculous refutation.

    What do you think about feminism?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    i shave my face because socially that is considered the norm.

    Shaving the face, or at least around the mouth, aids the non-verbal cues used to subtly refine communication, and as such it has some reasons beside the entirely aesthetic, and isn't directly comparable.

    Sack, back and crack waxing is more a more appropriate comparison.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    so this is why no one listens to what brad pitt has to say anymore....
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,026 I eat threads for breakfast
    katralla wrote: »
    What do you think about feminism?

    i think equality is good.
    I wouldn't be happy calling myself a feminist though, too many famous woman spouting man hating crap call themselves feminists. I'd rather no lump myself in with them.
    Fuck labels, I just believe in equality that's enough for me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    What do you think about feminism?
    n. Belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes.

    Using the definition above I'd have no problem calling myself a feminist.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,026 I eat threads for breakfast
    Big Gay wrote: »
    Shaving the face, or at least around the mouth, aids the non-verbal cues used to subtly refine communication, and as such it has some reasons beside the entirely aesthetic, and isn't directly comparable.

    Sack, back and crack waxing is more a more appropriate comparison.

    whatever. my point is that we all feel social pressures to groom ourselves. i dont want to walk around unwashed smelly and hairy just to make a political point.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The word does have some heavy conotations other than a dictionary definition too, would those stop you from saying you're a feminist? Like, would you say it to workmates but not be keen to yell it out down the pub?

    I think it's easy to be missunderstood when you say you are a feminist, especially as it means different things to different people.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    whatever. my point is that we all feel social pressures to groom ourselves. i dont want to walk around unwashed smelly and hairy just to make a political point.

    I don't think anyone would tell you that you should. My point to geneve was one that linked what is personal to what is political, not specifically anchored in shaving, it was just to make an example.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    i think equality is good.
    I wouldn't be happy calling myself a feminist though, too many famous woman spouting man hating crap call themselves feminists. I'd rather no lump myself in with them.
    Fuck labels, I just believe in equality that's enough for me.

    I pretty much agree. Self-labelling isn't consequence free, and as such I'd feel far more at ease arguing for equality than having to disassociate myself with various areas of disagreement and preconceptions about feminism.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    geneve wrote: »
    One could create a political message in everything one does in life.

    How does this relate to the post you quoted from me?
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