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Well if you beleive it's only the rich that participate you're very much wrong.
Cock and dog fighting along with bull baiting (which by the way was also enjoyed by the very wealthy) were banned because there is no other purpose other than the gamble on which animal won, or how quickly it won. You obviously don't see the difference.
Not that class should have anything to do with a ban. A decisoin should be made based on fox welfare and effectiveness of controlling fox population. Certainly not on the class of the hunters.
What I said was class played a major part in it surviving as long as it did. If it weren't for the fact that for most of our history we have been ruled my members of the nobility and the upper classes, it would have been abolished years ago.
Nor did I say that only the landed gentry do it. But it is true that the landed gentry and aristocracy are more likely to do it than your average person on the street, no?
And no, there is no difference to me between fox hunting and dog fighting, from a sports perspective. They are both about human being deriving pleasure and enjoyment from the suffering of other animals. It's no different from bullfighting.
Anyway, a decision was made in the appropriate manner, ie, democratically. And if the Tories get in, they can reverse it, also democratically. In answer to the orignal question, it won't win them many votes, but it won't lose them many either, as there are far bigger issues at stake.
Quite possibly. Though that has no bearing on whether it should or shouldn't be banned.
Bear in mind that bull baiting was banned in the 19th century - and that was a popualr blood sport amongst the upper classes.
The majority of those that hunt are not gentry or aristocracy.
People that live in the country are more likely to hunt than people from urban areas.
From a sports perspective? There is a difference is there not? Fox hunting is used to control fox numbers. The same cannot be said of dog fighting.
What do you think of falconry. Using birds to hunt? Why doesn't that recieve such a bad press?
My argument is that there are more pressing issues facing people from the countryside than whether or not people can kill animals for fun.
Because it is an issue of class and status? Don't get me wrong, I don't see foxhunting as any different ethically, to eating meat, or killing any other human being or animal for fun or enjoyment... I oppose unnecessary violence to any living creature... But the fact people enjoy it is incredibly disturbing.
Well a toff is an aristocrat. That's the definition.
Most people who hunt are from the country, it has little to do with how well off you are.
I've lived in the country since I was 6. I've participated in verious country sports since I was 8 and I've never been given the impression that these sports are unique to the upper classes.
Which works both ways.
It's human nature. Hunting is fun. Not that it has anything to do with the welfare of the fox or fox population control.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7937436.stm
Hunting is fun? to the big bully of course! Once you get to 30 (an adult) & earn respect you might actually realise hunting is barbaric. :grump: Upper class my arse, whats that crap about? It's all about morals, & pwople that hunt don't have any, sorry but thats My opinion!
Many of these have been highlighted already.
Do you have any scientific evidence for what is and what isn't human nature? We have control over our 'human nature' don't we?
Because the 'human nature' argument could also be used to defend war, genocide, rape, murder...
Just because we consider something instinct, does not justify it.
Could not agree more :yes:
X
As I said it works both ways. If there are more important issues why is such a big deal for so many people in this thread. If it's such a non issue why so much support for the ban?
I wasn't justifying it. You said the fact that people enjoy hunting disturbs you and others have said they cannot understand it. I was pointing out that there's something in us that makes it exciting and that's the reason people do it.
Yes hunting is fun.
I dunno what this reaching 30 and earning respect nonsense is all about though?
It is a big issue for a few people on the thread. This is a web forum, it doesn't represent the rest of the world as there are only a handful condoning it.
My regards to the hunt sabs who will be making things more difficult for those thugs on horses. :wave:
Totally agree.
Seems to me that most of the people who are arguing against it here have never actually tried it. Don't knock it unless you've tried it; who knows, you might actually enjoy it!
Thats a bit like saying don't knock crack till you've tried it no?
You don't have to kill someone to know it's wrong.
Take your own fucking advice then.
Instead of worring about some manky little fox that in you freely admit is not much of an issue, worry about things that directly concern you, your heating, your table of food and what ever issue you may have.
This argument that there are more pressing things to be concerned about applies more to those who have nothing to do with hunting than it does to those who hunt ffs.
Are you seriously comparing fox hunters to child abusers?
Saying that I agree that you don't need to have tried something to have an opinion on it. However you'd obvioulsy have to try it to understand why it's enjoyable. Hunting is good fun, I'm 100% certain you'd enjoy a drag hunt.
When your idea of fun consists of abusing animals for your own pleasure, then the law steps in
Who's making out it's the most pressing issue?
Namaste says there are more important thing we should worry about. And my answer is there are more pressing issues YOU should be worried about.
Why all the passion from the anti hunt brigade if it's not such a big issue. You can make it a big issue (even though you have fuck all to do with hunting) whilst those that do hunt should just roll over and concentrate on more important things. What an absurd argument.
You're delusional anyway, foxes still get killed, often suffering more painfull deaths, but as long as you lot are happy that these toffs arn't having fun doing it all is well in the countryside.
Bullshit.
And the law has changed that how exactly? People still shoot them - for pleasure, you can still chase them with dogs, what has changed? Yet you still beleive this hunting ban is a success.
My previous comment was only meant semi-seriously. Lighten up a little.
Though hunting is fucking fun. As is coarsing, lamping and game shooting. You should try it.
so people still abuse animals for pleasure. that doesnt mean it should be legal.
Women still get raped even though its illegal, men still get away with it. Maybe that means we should legalise rape?
same shit
Do you consider fishing and battery farming in the category of "animal abuse"?
I know it wasn't directed at me, but I think of that as animal abuse. I personally can't see the diffrence between clipping the beak of a chicken in a tiny cage, and stabbing some chicken on your plate.
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(p.s any form of animal eating/using for food in MY mind is animal abuse. I speak for myself only)
Meh, not about to embark on a debate about the merits or otherwise of vegetarianism, suffice to say, I think meat is delicious and we're biologically, anthropologically and socially disposed to eat it.
Never mind.
I don't eat that battery shit, partly because it tastes rank but also being from the countyside, I know the kind of impact that battery farming has on farmers who actually farm in a proper way.
Incidentally, the Waitrose Hampshire sausages are from pigs reared in my village. And bloody delicious they are too.
But not eating it is better.
I don't see how anyone can kill anything for their own pleasure. Including buying and eating meat.
My opinions though, not speaking for anybody else.
X
Should killing of all animals be illegal then. The ones on your plate, any rats you may have a problem with, maybe we should use falcons to control birds at airports - all done to make our lives a little more pleasurable. Maybe we should make owning cats illegal as they make a serious impact on garden birds?
Now you may have the ban preventing people killing htem with dogs but that just means there's plenty more to enjoy shooting.
Another crap analogy. It's still legal to kill foxes, still legal to flush them with dogs, still legal to hunt them with birds and still legal to take enjoyment from it. So what has this ban achieved? All it's done is keep the anti hunt brigade happy and pissed off a lot of people in the country made fuck all differnce to the fox.