If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Read the community guidelines before posting ✨
Options
Essential support for under 25s
Essential support for under 25s
Take a look around and enjoy reading the discussions. If you'd like to join in, it's really easy to register and then you'll be able to post. If you'd like to learn what this place is all about, head here.
Comments
Err, really? Since we didn't have a referendum on it, how do you know this?
That and the millions who are part of the Countryside Alliance (myself included) and the million people who marched for it and the thousands of people whose livelihoods have been affected by it.
Why? That's a bit of a sweeping generalisation. How many of said 'posh twats' have you come into contact?
I'm sure I'd come in for a lot of flack if I said that I hate the lumpen proletariat with a passion but hey, live and let live eh?
Thats a very good point.
Theres a lot of inverted snobbery in this place as well as left wing censorship.
I don't disagree with you at all. But I do believe that its not helpful for people to give half-facts or smudge the truth to win an argument. It's not just in this topic but in lots of P&D topics, some sweeping statements are often made that are either misleading or obviously uninformed.
So, not all 'toffs' are 'cunts', just like not all 'working class' are the 'salt of the earth'. I far prefer sensible, informed debate and if anyone has an argument to change my opinion, kudos to them. I want to grow as a person too but I want that argument based on facts ... not emotional hysteria.
:yes:
:yes:
To suggest that's it's only a small number of 'toffs' that enjoy it and participate is ridiculous. And it's not just those who participate in the hunts who campaigned against the ban.
This view that it's only posh twats that participate seems to be half the argument from the anti hunt campaigners. Even if it were a 'toff' only sport (which it's not), what the fuck has that got to do with anything?
The only argument in favour of banning hunting should be if it were unnecessarily cruel. As it goes there are some decent arguments for why it may be nessasary and why banning it doesn't really improve things for the fox.
The Countryside Alliance campaigns for a wide range of issues, not just the "right" of people to kill foxes in any way they see fit. The march, incidentally, was some 406,000 not one million. And as for the jobs that will be at risk, I'm afraid what's wrong is wrong regardless of whether some people might have to diversify their work.
Come, come. Even you know that this isn't really proof of anything.
Never said that it did campaign solely for the preservation of fox hunting. Though it was founded in 1997 at the time of the fox hunting debate so while it's not their sole raison d'etre, it's at the forefront of their policies.
As for the numbers, you are correct. I seem to remember it was higher but a quick look on their website shows that it was 407,791. Still, it could be 20 people, it could be 20 million. The government won't have a vote on it or listen to the people. Simple reason - they'd lose.
Opinion not fact. Foxes are vermin that destroy livelihoods and their numbers need to be controlled. In fact, they fare a lot better when their numbers are controlled and they're not having to encroach further and further into the cities in search of food because their numbers are going unchecked.
While I'm not about to embark upon a debate as to the methods required, their numbers need to be kept in check. Nice to see that after a decade of trying to destroy the countryside, the Tories are taking a stand.
Now if they could just repeal the other draconian laws such as the smoking ban, we'd be in business...
In any case nobody is arguing against culling foxes. But most people tend to object to a method that is cruel beyond all comprehension.
And who exactly is trying to "destroy the countryside", pray tell?
Don't see anywhere near as much objection to poisoning and trapping or shooting - all of which have increased despite the first two methods are illegal because of the ban. Just goes to show that's it not so much the death or suffering of the fox that people really care about - it's the fact people can make a day out of it.
I see very good reasons why fox hunting is a good idea but Im put off by the idea of a drawn out chase.
Despite the fact that shooting, poisoning and trapping are actually far more inhumane in that it takes the fox hours, sometimes days to be killed in most cases? If a hunt ever catches a fox, it's over in split-seconds. All but the very best gamekeepers can clean-kill a fox.
The Labour government is destroying, or trying to destroy the rural way of life in all its guises. If you'd like me to expand on any of this, just tip me the wink and I shall:
- Hunting with dogs
- Hazel Blears' plan to ignore green belt laws and concrete the south (2008)
- Axeing 2,500 post offices nationwide, most of these in rural areas where there is no practical alternative
- Since 1997, the amount of government funding for rural councils has fallen from 57p for every £1 received by urban councils to 51p, probably since Labour voters have never set foot outside suburbia unless it's to go to Centre Parcs or some similar God-forsaken hell hole
- Rural police? Don't get me started. Read Inspector Gadget's blog.
- Foot & Mounth 2001
- Fuel crisis of 2000, where many of the blockaders were farmers, rightly annoyed that EU subsidy law has meant that agricultural output has dwindled in this country since 1997
Whether it boils down to the simple fact that Labour voters tend to be urban-dwellers and that Tories tend to reside in the sticks, or whether it's more complex than that, I don't know. Either way, I know that I still prefer the countryside any day. And if I can blow away some defenceless animals along the way and have them for my supper, all the better.
people enjoy watching dogs kill foxes.
Its all the same. just people getting off on watching animals kill each other.
If the fox population need controlling, then there needs to be some humane way of doing it, rather than a bunch of sadists in red coats parading round the countryside.
i dont have any special feelings for foxes over any other animals, but i think going round encouraging dogs to rip foxes to shreds in a weird pompous ceremony, is distasteful and inhumane
For the sake of balance, I presume that your disgust for this type of pastime also extends to your disgust for bull fighting? Bull fighting is appallingly cruel - perhaps even more than fox hunting. At least the fox has a chance to get out alive and is not continually 'pierced' to get get a reaction
Believe me, I've had plenty of run-ins with knuckle draggers in Spain who think it's "an art" and justified. A majority of young people appear to be against it but a lot of older people don't. Personally I feel like opening up a bottle of bubbly whenever a matador is goaded.
What is it with foxes that they are apparently impossible to kill humanely when we managed to do so with most other species? We might as well use them in the military and attach explosives to them for the blowing up of enemy tanks, seeing as it is apparently impossible to shoot one dead.
A much repeated but false myth, perpetuated to justify the existence of hunting with dogs.
As for Labour's efforts to "destroy" the countryside
- Hunting with dogs: irrelevant to the welfare of the countryside
- Hazel Blears' plan to ignore green belt laws and concrete the south (2008): let's see how much is "concreted over" and how much is Daily Mail hysteria shall we
- Axeing 2,500 post offices nationwide, most of these in rural areas where there is no practical alternative: that I agree with, though I'll be interesting to see what the Tories plan to do about it: because the bottom line remains that if they are to be kept open, taxes will have to go up to pay for it all. And we know how much Tories love taxes
- Since 1997, the amount of government funding for rural councils has fallen from 57p for every £1 received by urban councils to 51p, probably since Labour voters have never set foot outside suburbia unless it's to go to Centre Parcs or some similar God-forsaken hell hole: I don't know the ins and outs of this but a lot of other areas have seen cuts in funding. There is no countryside-hating agenda at work. And the suggestion that Labour has few or no voters from the countryside is of course a monumental load of bovine excrement
- Foot & Mounth 2001: Yes, Labour is responsible for diseases and bacteria as well.
Incidentally, funny how you don't mention the single most damaging event the countryside has seen in 100 years: namely the BSE scandal, something that was caused not by the Labour (or Tory) governments, but by the appalling practices by farmers fuelled by greed, and which might cost yet the lives of hundreds of thousands of people in this country
- Fuel crisis of 2000, where many of the blockaders were farmers, rightly annoyed that EU subsidy law has meant that agricultural output has dwindled in this country since 1997: Oh, I think farmers do very well indeed out of fuel subsidies and other such help.
Never mind that the cost of motoring has, in real terms, actually come down significantly over the decades. Something the fuel lobby doesn't want to be spoken about.
Good lad.
Well you clearly don't go shooting that often. If dogs catch the fox it's a certain kill. Shooting them often results in maimed foxes getting away.
Or could it be that foxes are more appropriate and fun prey to chase on horses than, say, deer?
We do. I go ferreting (rabbits control) and ratting with dogs. Nothing more effective at killing them than terriers.
Still trap moles, but I've yet to find a dog small enough to fit down a mole tump and people don't generally like holes being dug all over their lawn.
Foxes are considerably larger than rats and rabbits. Anyone who is a decent shoot and trained could take care of the culling without the need for hounds. Indeed, when you think of the resources employed to kill a fox with a hunt (50+ dogs, horsemen, helpers, etc etc), hunting with dogs seems an extraordinarily inefficent way (resources-way) to control vermin, and something a single man with a rifle could do much better.
Same problem occurs though. Often kills are not clean at all.
Not denying that shooting isn't an effective way of culling animals, just that's it's not really any more humane. It's not like the movies where a bad guy drops down instantly dead after being shot. Some get away with horrific injuries (something that cannot be said of hunting with dogs)
What's your point? The only people it costs are those that enjoy doing it. Add to that the fact it actaully creates jobs and these hunts still go drag hunting.
I don't want to be overly defensive of fox hunting because I don't really like it, but I accept there are some good reasons why it shouldn't have been banned.
*tuts*
X
If you had a rat problem you'd want to get rid of them wouldn't you?
NO NOT BY FUCKING KILLING THEM.
I'M VEGAN.
Xx
thats the only humane way to do it tbh
Fox hunting is more of a class thing, than a countryside thing in my experience. I have known people from cities do it and to be fair, it has fuck all to do with post offices and country life.
I don't understand the correlation at all... A lot of rural people I know and have grown up with (I grew up in a small village on a mountain) work in shops, or on farms... They don't even think about things like fox hunting as it is more centred around the community goings on.
I know people who have gone out shooting mixy rabbits, but that's it. Fox hunting is just not a part of country life for most people, just the few middle England who live out their in their nice converted barn houses.
A lot of people in the countryside live in poverty, a different kind of poverty than city people. If we want to support the people in the countryside, maybe we could look at helping thousands of people heat their homes, rather than a few middle class barbarians go out and hurt animals for fun.
Just more evidence that it got more to do with the fancy coats and trumpets than it has actually got to do with the killing of the animal. If you going to argue that fox hunting is cruel then do so, I pretty much agree with you, however where the people who participate in the sport come from or what they wear has fuck all to do with anything.
If you had a stables or a farm and you had a rat problem, humane traps (the capture and release one) are not effective in the slightest. I'm talking about a problem where there are hundreds of rats. Now if I had a kid and I knew they were working or riding in a stable with such a problem I'd want rid of the fucking things, rats spread disease. Often as kids we used to shoot them, but nothing's more effective than stickign up a few nets and letting the dogs go at them. None of them escape with horrifc wounds. They die in seconds. Most humane way of dealing with them
That's quite a different experience than mine. I've grown up in a village too, workign on farms as a kid, shooting and beating every weekend. Most of the people that go to my local hunt are local middle class girls that went to my comprehensive school. That and local farmers and foresters. Hardly toffs. It has a lot to do with the countryside. - most of the people involved in hunting are those that actively take part in the managment of the countryside, people that get their hands dirty.
This thread is full of inverted snobbery. That's hald the issue I think. Every anti hunt poster in this thread has made reference to class - somehting that should have nothing to do with the issue. As it goes people are happy with the ban because they see it as preventing 'toffs' riding round killing foxes. The reality they now pay no attention to is that foxes still die in horrific ways.
Humans are much bigger than foxes, but the amount of humans who survive gunshot wounds (and by high velocity weaponary) suggests size isn't everything (and in gunshot wounds may be a advantage to survival - at least with humans who get medical care).
But we're not talking about efficiency - the most efficient way would be petrol down the hole and lit match, but about the least suffering.