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the bbc are right tools

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Let's sell our surviving Spitfires and Lancasters to foreign aviation enthusiasts.

    The way defence cuts are biting I thinl the plan is for us to keep spits and Lancs as our first line of defence
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    True Blue wrote:
    Compete in the market place like every other TV/Radio station, instead of being tied to Nanny States' apron strings.

    For a start, the BBC is actually independent of the state. Secondly, the market cannot provide everything. What do you say to my point that commercial news organisations are actually in the business of selling advertising space and the possible conflicts of interest?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    The way defence cuts are biting I thinl the plan is for us to keep spits and Lancs as our first line of defence
    :D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    For a start, the BBC is actually independent of the state.

    Balls.
    Secondly, the market cannot provide everything.

    Only what is voluntarily paid for. Oh, and which market? The one we have at that moment which is run by the state or an actual free market?
    What do you say to my point that commercial news organisations are actually in the business of selling advertising space and the possible conflicts of interest?

    As opposed to being in the business of selling hegemony and reification?

    Let's be clear. A free media is an important brake on "government" power, only when the "government" see it as in it's own interests to pretend that the population is free and give them something resembling that freedom through false choices and double binds.

    Luckily, the more free a population is from government interference (beyond providing a bit of stability) the more productive it is. If we were more productive chained to a bench, then that's exactly where we would be.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    For a start, the BBC is actually independent of the state.
    It only survives on State handouts in the form of the licence fee which in turn comes from us the taxpayers. So its "independent"???? Never, it knows not to bite the hand that feeds it. We now see the unedifying spectacle of Michael Grade & Mark Thompson, the top two BBC men, and great buddies of Blair, trying to get rid of John Humphrys, who is hated by New Labour.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No, it is run independtly of the state. Now as it receives funding from the state, it does fulfil some of the state's functions, however it is actually run independently. Now, if you can quote me some examples where it operates as a government propaganda machine and as a left wing propaganda machine please (even those these two things are mutually contradictory).

    Thanks.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    True Blue wrote:
    It only survives on State handouts in the form of the licence fee which in turn comes from us the taxpayers. So its "independent"???? Never, it knows not to bite the hand that feeds it. We now see the unedifying spectacle of Michael Grade & Mark Thompson, the top two BBC men, and great buddies of Blair, trying to get rid of John Humphrys, who is hated by New Labour.
    You have been watching a different BBC to the rest of us... :rolleyes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    No, it is run independtly of the state. Now as it receives funding from the state, it does fulfil some of the state's functions, however it is actually run independently. Now, if you can quote me some examples where it operates as a government propaganda machine and as a left wing propaganda machine please (even those these two things are mutually contradictory).Thanks.
    I'm confused, its "independent", yet it fulfils some of the State's functions" and "it receives its funding from the State."
    What a strange concept of independence you have.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If it weren't independent it wouldn't have been criticising the government fiercely over the last few years, would it?

    You still have to tell us how the BBC's handling of Dr Kelly's death is proof that the BBC is favourable to the government... seeing as proves exactly the opposite.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    You have been watching a different BBC to the rest of us... :rolleyes:


    hang on - he may have a point. The top BBC people will be trying to woo the government (Whoever they are) as they are trying to renew the charter. This isn't really political bias though, more survival.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3444219.stm
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    At the end of the day, the only thing that counts is money, right?

    Yes - and you quoted a bunch of defence projects - things which are necessary to defend private property and the rule of law - two things which the monetary system depends on.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've quoted many other things... Nelson's original ship, war hero statues and monuments, 2WW historical planes, real ale breweries, historical buildings such as The Tower of London and Buckingham Palace, art...

    None of those are needed for the defence of the country and the rule of law. So you would not object to their sale to foreigners, right?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    True Blue wrote:
    I'm confused, its "independent", yet it fulfils some of the State's functions" and "it receives its funding from the State."
    What a strange concept of independence you have.

    You seem to be having trouble with the English language. I said it is run independently and it is - it is not run by people chosen and employed by the government.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    None of those are needed for the defence of the country and the rule of law. So you would not object to their sale to foreigners, right?

    Most monuments pay for themselves through tourism and copyright payments.

    As for breweries - theyre businesses, I dont see what you are getting at.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh nothing important... just history, culture and heritage.

    I thought you right wingers treasure those things above anything else.

    But it seems that money is the only thing that really matters.

    Very unpatriotic.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    You seem to be having trouble with the English language. I said it is run independently and it is - it is not run by people chosen and employed by the government.
    Micahel Grade & Mark Thompson? Who appointed them and who confirmed their appointment? Who appoints the governors of the BBC?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A nations heritage is important - but not as important as its economic well being.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Matadore wrote:
    Most monuments pay for themselves through tourism and copyright payments.

    No they don't. Various statues along Whitehall are maintained by Westminster City Council (who get extra money from the Government). Many museums are free and rely on Government hand outs.

    Personally I see no contradiction between the private sector doing what it does well, the public sector doing what it does well and both working together where there are benefits.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    But it seems that money is the only thing that really matters.
    Very unpatriotic.
    Whats money got to do with patriotism?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It does when some people suggest any institution, no matter how important to the country historically, can be sold off for profit.

    Can we sell all our works of art as well? Where do you draw the line?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Why do you need to draw a line? Thats the problem with socialists - no flexibility.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've never said we should sell off our national art collection. I was disturbed to read recently that the British Council has a vast collection of art that is only now going to be put on display to the public although its our taxes that have purchased much of it. How come we weren't told about this collection before?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    True Blue wrote:
    I've never said we should sell off our national art collection. I was disturbed to read recently that the British Council has a vast collection of art that is only now going to be put on display to the public although its our taxes that have purchased much of it. How come we weren't told about this collection before?

    You cant display everything all the time, there isnt room, and anyway you cant study things if they are in a glass case with the public oggling them.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    True Blue wrote:
    Micahel Grade & Mark Thompson? Who appointed them and who confirmed their appointment? Who appoints the governors of the BBC?

    So 2 people out of a staff of...how many?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Matadore wrote:
    Why do you need to draw a line? Thats the problem with socialists - no flexibility.
    Why do we need to draw a line? Because 'we socialists' clearly have far more respect for the nation's institutions and treasures and more heart than free market capitalist right wingers like you, by the sound of it...

    Is there anything you wouldn't sell for profit? Can we draw a line at human beings at least? Or is nothing sacred in your money-obsessed world?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    You cant display everything all the time, there isnt room, and anyway you cant study things if they are in a glass case with the public oggling them.
    So we pay for them but we're not allowed to know about them, let alone see them, oh thats fair enough!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Matadore wrote:
    Why do you need to draw a line? Thats the problem with socialists - no flexibility.


    when the museums had entrance fees, attendance dropped LOTS, from tourists as well - i'd rather have the culture
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    The Matadore wrote:
    Why do you need to draw a line? Thats the problem with socialists - no flexibility.

    You think any other system is? Besides the wierd mix we have at the moment which looks eerily like a far less ervere mix of National Socialism - more like we currently have... conservative socialism? New labour is a right mess and a half - they want state control, yet the services employs private contractos to do bits and oh dear. Can't make its mind up.

    No system is flexible - flexibility is a just a stupid idea to make things seem nicer. Each system tries to enforce itself as best it can.
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