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I didnt say it doesnt turn you mad, it can bring on pre-existing conditions and make them worse. There isnt any clear evidence that a totally normal person will be turned mad purely by cannabis, it seems to only make those already susceptable more likely to suffer.
Do you really think it deserves Class B, is it as dangerous as amphetamines? or Barbs? (completely aside from the debate as to whether making it illegal actually helps at all)
Someone with mental health problems is going to be at risk from alot of things, including drink. That argument is nothing more than an excuse to ban them, they cant come up with anything else.
Yes, and others
Did I say that?
Agreed.
Where have I agreed with banning them?
i doubt many people have taken alcohol or tobaco and have tripped out so bad they felt like killing themselves or had such an experience they've never been right in the head since
Turlough, thats a completely ignorant view of shrooms. Anyone who feels like killing themselves on them is an idiot, where do you even get that information from? I know of one case where someone freaked themselved out so much they jumped of a balcony. That one case was used in the media because it never happens. People who never feel right after are those with mental health problems to begin with, any sane person knows it's just the shrooms and gets over a bad trip.
If you're trying to highlight that it's humanly possible for bad things to happen because of them, then of course you can come up with some. It's possible for bad things to happen anywhere, doing anything, the point is that it's unlikely.
ok say you're right (which you're not)...how do we know we're not selling shrooms to someone with mental health problems then when they're legal?...a bad trip can affect a sane person after it in a detrimental way
Mind explaining that opinion? It's hard to have a conversation about something if the only thing you can say is im wrong and you're right.
What if we sell them to someone with mental heath problems? What if someone doesn't know they're allergic to nuts, someone sells him a ton and he dies? You weigh the risks, life is full of them. If something has obvious risks that effect the masses then it's a problem, shrooms aren't in that category.
ok if shrooms pose no threat how come the Government decided to make them class A, you may also be susseptible to getting mental conditions after taking them, most notably HPPD which is not a nice condition by any stretch of the imagination
It's nothing more than to look like they're getting tough on drugs, no other reason and thats why the bill was rushed through parliament. Read the thread on the first page called 'UN sees no reason to ban mushrooms'.
"Low risks
In 2000, Coordination point Assessment and Monitoring new drugs(CAM) did a study on the risks of Psilocybe mushrooms. The CAM is part of the EU Early Warning Mechanism. It came to the conclusion that there is no need to ban Magic Mushrooms. The risks towards public health, criminality, public order, addiction and many other concerns are too low. The sales of magic mushrooms prevent people from going into the woods picking mushrooms and misidentification of magic mushrooms with toxic wild mushrooms. Dr. Lousberg was one of the experts working on the study.
Since then there has been no new data to conclude otherwise. In fact new research and data only confirmed the outcome of the study."
It was in reply to "...yet they're no threat to anyone." Which is patently untrue. However it does not follow that I think they should be Class A. In fact I think that all drugs should be legalised. That does not mean though that I think they are harmless.
I'm sorry, but shrooms are in that category. They pose no threat to most people, but they are a very powerful mind altering drug. If you've any underlying emotional issues, they can really fuck you up.
If you're not careful with a sharp knife theres a risk you can seriously wound yourself and die. We still use them every day without even thinking about that, because most of us are born with common sense.
There are some small but significant risks from taking psychedelic drugs. Go and visit your local dual diagnosis team and ask them.
What a daft analogy.
Look - I'm not some idiot who knows nothing about drugs. I've been there and bought the fucking t-shirt. All I'm saying is that shrooms are not "no threat to anyone".
The only point im making with that analogy is that we do things that have possible risks all the time, but no matter how small it is we focus on it when it comes to drugs.
Fairynuff, I didn't bother to read the whole thread.
Yes we do take risks all the time. However, using a knife is not inherently risky if you're careful. Using drugs is inherently risky.
I've been with someone who wanted me to kill them or to kill themselves while tripping out badly on acid. It does happen, and they are not 'idiots'.
:yes: Well said. Having good information and acting on it only minimises the risk, it doesn't make taking drugs safe.
Who's said anything about acid? Just because acid and shrooms are both psychedelics doesn't mean they're the same. I wouldn't recommend acid to anyone, in fact I always tell people what a horrible drug it is. You dont gain anything from it, you just see stuff and get headfucked.
Even so, no matter how bad a trip is I cant imagine reaching a point where I ask someone to kill me, but you'll always find someone who gives the government a reason to stop the rest of us gaining insight and learning about ourselves in ways most people cant.
Acid and mushrooms are very similar, apart from the duration of effects...
And Turlough is right, tripping (even on weed for some people) can be heavy...near death & religious experiences, long-term changes of perception etc etc.
and most of the time when you've taken more cannabis than you can eat then you just go to sleep and wake up fine (well still rather stoned if you ate a good bit!)
The only similarity is that they're both psychedelics. I did over a hundred acid tabs in the early 90's when 1 would be more than enough. When I was younger I thought it was cool but knowing what I do now I wouldn't touch them again. Besides both altering your perceptions the effects are very different. Acid physically and mentally drains you, it doesn't feel at all natural, quite the opposite its like being saturated in chemicals.
A shroom trip can be spiritual, it opens your mind to things and teaches you about yourself. It's a valuable learning experience like nothing else, especially if used for the right reasons. I assume the long term changes in perception you're talking about is your outlook on life, which for most shrooms users is extremely positive. If you take them and dont like the experience you dont take them again, simple as that. They'll tell you when you've had enough, you dont become addicted to something you dont enjoy.
If you want to compare it to risks with other banned drugs, then maybe you can explain why the goverment rushed this ban through without the normal scrutiny or debates. You cant, because there is no reason and the risk is too low to be an issue, that is fact. So it's pointless to make a comparison with the risks of other drugs, because there is no comparison.
If you're going to state things as fact then show some knowledge of the subject.
Plenty of people can't smoke weed without "the fear", and that includes experienced drug users.
So where have I presented anything even bordering on arguable as fact then you mug?
Everything you're claiming LSD doesn't do is exactly what it does for me & others. And it's all well documented.
You said "Acid and mushrooms are very similar, apart from the duration of effects...". You didn't say "in my experience", therefore you presented it as fact.
Any chance you can manage to debate something without having to call me a mug? Especially when you're the one talking rubbish. It doesn't help your argument one bit.
Just because that's your experience, doesn't mean it's everyone's experience.
Not really, i consider my experiences with LSD to have been pretty textbook.
Did they not
LOL. You're criticising me for this?
"The only similarity is that they're both psychedelics"
"Besides both altering your perceptions the effects are very different"
"You dont gain anything from it, you just see stuff and get headfucked."
You are the one making the outlandish and dubious statements here, not me.
Don't start aggressively lambasting me with utter nonsense posts to a casual comment then eh?
Please, show me where i'm talking rubbish. Except of course, in your opinion