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You are however, painting "them" as being one monolithic entity. Which is stupid.
I didn't say that. I said that the praises for democracy the US government gives are completely hollow and meaningless... Democracy only counts for them when the "right" candidate is elected (see Chile).
And incidentally, and to make this perfectly clear, the illegal war in Iraq had absolutely fuck all to do with events in Lebanon or anywhere else.
And if so is there perhaps a thought that the country could be split?
I thought it was clear that "them" were the people who allow FGM as an acceptable practice. In not respecting womens rights, it does make them a monolithic block I suppose.
GWSS is right, womens equality in the west has not been fully attained. However, no-one is claiming perfection for "western civilization", it is a process that is ongoing. I would say that it is a core value but that there is still work to do and no-one should be complacent.
Nice try Duv, but just another lie to advance your own xenophobic supremacist ideology.
For the geographical distribution of FGM:
http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/femgen/fgm1.htm#a3
As far as Islam goes, is a husband allowed to physically assault his wife if she is being rebellious? Or is that another anti-Islamic myth? I understand there is considerable controversy over this verse:
ayah 34 of Surah four: "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women because Allah gave them more to the one than the other, and because they support them from their means. So devout women are extremely careful and attentive in guarding what cannot be seen in that which Allah is extremely careful and attentive in guarding. Concerning women whose rebellious (nushooz) you fear, admonish them, then refuse to share their beds, then hit them; but if they become obedient, no not seem means of annoyance against them. For Allah is Most High, Great."
http://www.themodernreligion.com/women/w_abuse1.htm
As far as monolithic blocks go, the anti-womens rights tag is not really helpful. FGM is an appaling practice, from any decent persons perspective.
Well it rather depends who you ask doesn't it? I'm sure some Islamists would think they have the right to beat their wives. Most Muslims wouldn't. Again, you're seeing Islam as one monolithic entity. Its not.
I am afraid I am NOT seeing Muslims as being part of some monolithic entity, thats why I said there is "considerable controversy" over the verse I quoted. Anyone can see the sectarian problems in Iraq and understand that Islam is not a monolithic entity. Please.
How do you know that "Most muslims wouldn't" think they have the right to beat their wives?
You are though, by even asking the question "As far as Islam goes, is a husband allowed to physically assault his wife if she is being rebellious?".
From talking to Muslims. How do you think?
You have equality of opportunity and under the law - you're favoured in fact.
But you're not equal - obviously, men and women are different.
eta:Blagsta you'd have to talk to all muslims and ask them all this specific question and believe all their answers to know this by chatting, they're not a monolithic entity ya know..
So how do you explain the difference in male and female wages for the same jobs? How do you explain the objectification of women in advertising, media and society? How do you explain domestic violence?
Yes we're different. That doesn't mean we're not equal though.
Well yes, that was rather my point, brainiac. :rolleyes:
So are you retracting your comment about "most muslims" and changing it to muslim people you have spoken to?
If some individual women receive less pay in those circs it's either because they are less valued by their employer or don't negotiate as well - same for lower paid men - boohoo (oh sorry - you think every body should get the same even if some contribute less don't you?).
We're not equal in the areas we're different Blagsta.
No, not most. But the ones I have spoken to confirm what I say. I think they're in a better position to judge than you or me don't you think?
See above.
You might believe that but you'd be wrong.
I suggest you actually look into it a bit more.
No, we're different, but equal. We have differing abilities but we have equal status as human beings.
They confirm what you say! Little Stalin!
I think we get clearer understanding of new cultures and religions from books than from people. The average churchgoer couldn't tell you as much about christianity as a good pile of books.
yea we're all human...well said. I'm not gonna look into it more, but if you make it easy and provide a link I may reconsider.
Eh?
I think yer average church goer would be able to tell you how they view their religion better than any book could.
Thank you.
Only if the average churchgoer is more articulate and has thought as deeply about their religion as the exceptional churchgoer who writes books about it.
I have no Muslim friends and don't consider myself poorer for it.
What nonsense. If we were talking about complex cultural and theological issues then maybe I'd agree with you. We're not though, we're talking about people's everyday experience of their religion.
Maybe you should talk to some Muslims. They're not actually required to hold any particular view. The Muslims I have talked to about this stuff emphasise that its all about personal choice. Maybe you should educate yourself on the subject before posting your drivel all over the internet?
Most churchgoers don't everyday religious experiences. For most it's a comfortable habit.
I've read the Quran several times and other books on Islam. Oh I think they're required alright. On penalty of death in some cases.
I don't lie. Please don't get so personal.
Most churchgoers will know what they believe and know what their experience of their particular faith is.
You're wrong. Try talking to some actual real life Muslim people.
I didn't accuse you of lying. I accused you of being ignorant.
*yawn*
Got that evidence about DuPont owning the patent on cannabis yet? LOL!
I'm fucking sick and tired of people claiming that they know certain things, when they blatantly don't. Morrismania has admitted that he has never actually talked to any Muslims about this issue.
There's a difference between claiming you know something, and denouncing someone elses "knowledge" in such a crude manner as you do.
One is constructive (whether you agree or not), the other is destructive.