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it's probably a fact, like look what they achieved with what they got, as humans got smarter intellectually we've just become too dependent on the things we've invented, i mean, i'm grateful and all but i feel really alienated.
scientists are pretty much all in agreement that the human mind/brain ...is the most incredible and complex thing so far discovered in the entire universe.
putting us light years ahead of any other life form ...where the christian would say ...man was made in gods image ...
which i pressume to mean ...we have the capability to create and destroy ...to lagh and forgive ...
concrete is from nature therefore the rough estate down the road is ...a part of nature which has been manipulated by man ...windmills or power stations ...they are mans mark on the environment.
as for men once living naked and swinging fromthe trees ...there is no evidence to suggest sucjh a situation ever existed ...and then somehow getting a huge and complex brain from out of nowhere!
a brain that has more connections than the entire comunication networks of planet earth ...thats a lot of connections!
Feel free to go and live in a mud hut and get back to nature.
I'm sure youd be pining for human progress within a few hours.
I think that tribes and people who rough it deserve respect.
most people believe it or not ...still live in mud huts ...if your house is made of bricks then you live in a mud hut ...i'll bet money on it that your house also consists of trees.
still cook using fire?
your life still depends on food and fresh water?
you are a fucking idiot!
One-Shooting foxes is not always the "humane" option. You can't always get a clean kill on a fox (or any animal for that matter) and i'd rather it took 2 seconds for the fox to die (by a lead hound on a hunt) than 20 minutes through an ill aimed shot.
Second-the hunt do not block a fox in when it has gone to ground. They move off and draw another cover.
Third-the pack of dogs does not kill the fox, the lead hound kills, usually within only a couple of seconds.
Fourth-oh humane lovers, what happens to the packs of these dogs who have nothing wrong but been born into a job when they get made redundant? Hounds cannot be rehomed to normal pet lives as they are working animals, so the answer? Kill the entire pack? Sounds great doesn't it.
Fifth-the effect this will have on the countryside economy now that the farriers, huntstaff etc. are not used because of the disbanding of hunts?
I have no wish to see either side use violent methods against each other- i believe people should have the right to their own opinions or demonstrations but i don't believe huntsmen should be beating up anti's but then again i've seen anti's dragging people off horseback, scaring horses in order to dislodge/scare riders. Blagsta - you might have insider information on many things but anti's are just as likely to use violence as the pro - hunt supporters.
Some people need to learn some facts and figures instead of just reading other people's propaganda and spouting off from it. Other people have some very just arguements though which is why it's called a debate. What i take offence at is it being branded a toffy nosed sport full of blood thirsty bastards -by people who don't understand half of what they're on about. I've met plumbers, brickies, secretaries, stone masons and various other everyday normal working class people on hunts.Anyway i thought the ban was about the killing of foxes and wasn't a class issue so why do people make such a big deal out of the upper class bit if it's not about that?
No. I'm just someone that wanted to voice her opinion. My views on fox hunting have nothing to do with whether i like or dislike new labour
I don't write my thoughts to cause offence. Usually you wouldn't find me in this forum but i thought for once fuck it i'll have my say.
can tell it's been a tough day, my spelling's certainly gone to pot :rolleyes:
you managed to get so much of what some of us have said all through this thread ...until the thread went to pot ...into one post.
you didn't offend me ...we're on the same side.
the metion of mr scargil was at the time meant to point to all those working class families who's lives were being torn apart by people who didn't understand or care ...
i supported him ...i was a city dweller at the time.
but what goes round round comes round ...the countryside didn't give a fuck about the miners ...
so todays clean play station people in the big glassy marble hall of consumerism ...aint a fucking clue about another kind of living.
are we now a minrity group?
if so can i get a grant?
To be honest though, while i agree with you, i've never done the city living thing so i probably don't understand the other side of the coin. But this is why i dont shout off about inner city issues which i fully and openly admit i don't understand.
I suppose where i am, everything is done in an old fashioned traditional way. To me i understand this, i embrace it, it is what i have been brought up with and what i understand, i'll not apologize for not knowing any different. I don't understand the whole "upper class" system. Round here the money does not maketh the man.
had enough of that and moved to the remotes of wales.
i visit the city ...thoroughly enjoy myself more or less everytime ...but could never cough there again.
nearly twenty years of being a yokel ...i'm in love with it still.
exactly, i haven't met one person who actually lives in the sticks that thinks foxhunting is bad, because we have a better understanding of the real issues.........forget the class thing, this is about the city folk who don't have a clue apart from what they read in the tabloids, so it's no wonder they're ill-informed.........why should they even have a say when it doesn't even concern them..........it's gonna destroy parts of the countryside, it's inevitable, why should the 'suffering' of foxes come above the well being of real humans? it's bollocks, and completely illogical, and all the points carolina raised in that post are valid e.g. foxes will still suffer, i don't really know what the fuck this achieves at the end of the day.........they'll ban angling next, won't somebody think of the fish? :rolleyes:
Because you haven't actually met me. But people like me do exist.
I grew up surrounded by the most beautiful countryside you can imagine. I've lost pets to foxes in the past. Doesn't mean that I can't see past the bullshit which the Countryside Alliance spout.
Being an example of the bullshit.
Thing is, what most huntsmen forget, is that the kill doesn't take two minutes. That's just the final act.
There is a chase...
Talking of bullshit.
Only the inhuman huntsmen would kill the hounds because the can't chase foxes. It just sums up the casual approach to animal life that huntsmen have.
A humane group would seek an alternative because, let's face it, the hunt is more about the social gathering than it is about the kill.
A crass argument. Hunting is now illegal. Should have been for years. To suggest that we shouldn't make something illgal because of the potential unemployment is like calling for the return of child labour because all those poor children lost their jobs when it was banned.
It would help if the message was consistent, wouldn't it?
You are right of course, toffy nosed should never be used to describe this group.
Blood thirsty bastards on the other hand...
Thus proving the point about our reliance.
How "evolved" do you think we will be once oil dries up?
fair play, but you are in the minority for sure..........and i'm not saying the Countryside Alliance doesn't chat shit they will say anything to stop it happening......i have nothing against foxes but i'm not a farmer........and the countryside will have to adapt but in the short term people will lose jobs and livelihoods will go, that is no bullshit.........do you know any foxhunters personally MoK?...........do you think shooting foxes is more humane by any significant margin?.........the fox is still going to bloody die, it all seems like a non-issue designed to distract people from the real issues and what our govt is up to with the i.d. cards and the like........
the countryside will not die ...and neither will the bits that the tourists love to see ...
lets remove the right to hunt and the right to shoot ...mostly a million miles from the playstation genersation ...lets remove country people from the countryside ...start with their 4b4's ...rabbits foxes pidgeons fucking fish ...
am i the only pne here who sees an age of factions ...society in deep divides and growing bigger?
Yes I do.
The humanity of the kill is just part of it, the fact that it has evolved into a social event is another.
It was an election promise, before ID cards became the big issue. I don't think you can lay that one on this Govt. Sneaky bastards though they are.
But not one that is really associated with the hunts. the countryside alliance should be trying to defend the lifestyles that are good, not the barbaric because like it or not they do eed the support of the majority.
They should be looking to defend our local businesses like the newsagent, butchers and farmers etc who are struggling against the major retailers. That is the real threat to the countryside. Not a ban on hunting...
Yes, but this issue has been discussed for about eight years now. Really the legislation is designed to get it out of the way, not to hide something else.
aye that is very true.
yes but they make it out that they only really passed the law now because of public pressure, i don't think public opinion has shifted greatly in the past 8 years.........the issue has only recently been blown up in the media and drawn our attention, away from the real issues.......
that is just a whole heap of other shit along with total lack of public transport in some areas ...whilst your telling us we can't drive fours ...
the countryside has been in crisis for years. not economicaly ...not socialy ...but politicaly.
the people of the countryside were once the majority ...now we are the minority.
the city dictates our lives as it does yours ...but this minority aren't allowed to stand up for anything that doesn't mean something ...to the playstation people.
such fucking hypocrites!
Not at all, I didn't rule out transport etc, I just didn't mention it.
I grew up in a village where the public transpor was a bus which came on Wednesday morning, but at no other time. It was three miles to the nearest train station.
City folk will always dictate life, because they are in the majority, just a London life dictates much of that because that is where the decision makers reside.
I'm not ignorant to that fact. I can't even live in my home village because I can't afford to anymore, and I earn over £35k pa.
But even what the country had in terms of jobs and opportunities is being erroded. Traditional employment has gone, partly through mechanisation and partly through the squeeze put on farmers by the prices which retailers will pay. When before there were small shops, now they are closed because people travel to find the produce.
So many amenities are now centralised a less is spent on rural England...
...it's how much money can be made ...and how to get you to part with it ...
and most willingly part with their pennies for such a bargain.
fuck it it's cheap ...same as the trainers and the telly ...
Don't give up the day job. You ain't gonna make it as a philosopher. In fact I doubt you'll ever make it as anything judging by what you write on here.
Are you for real? Or being sarcastic? It's hard to tell with you these days.