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Ken Livingstone accused of anti-semitism

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    BlackArab wrote:
    He has a list rivalling our very own Prince Philip

    To German MEP Martin Schulz, at start of Italy's EU presidency in July 2003:
    "I know that in Italy there is a man producing a film on Nazi concentration camps - I shall put you forward for the role of Kapo (guard chosen from among the prisoners) - you would be perfect."

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3041288.stm
    Cheers. I misremembered about the target of his ire being a reporter, but the principle is the same. I think saying such things to a German would be worse. Saying it to a Jew is slightly inexplicable in isolation, but perhaps not in the context in which Livingstone used the comment, re the reporter's employees.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    But it is not clear that Ken was aware that the guy was Jewish when he made the first remark........
    "Ah right, well you might be, but actually you are just like a concentration camp guard, you are just doing it because you are paid to, aren't you?"
    He'd just learned that the guy was Jewish, hence his clarifying 'well you might be', but he evidently still felt his following comment was as relevant, if not more relevant. Food for thought, as it were (to anyone who isn't looking for the slightest excuse to attack Livingstone, anyway).
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well in a way the revelation that the bloke was Jewish made Ken's subsequent comment even more relevant, yes. Kind of saying "Well if you're Jewish what the fuck are you doing working for such people?"

    It might be rather insensitive, even callous, but Ken does have a point.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You've got a very warped view of conscripted soldiers ... strangely enough, they are a mixed bag, some(all) with mental health problems.

    Not all men are able to say no to power ....... so, in many ways I think the rapist who does the deed off his own bat is worse than the one who just "followed orders" ......

    I am off course presuming that you regard a Guantanamo Bay Guard as worse than a Paedophile.....
    :)

    Thats total clueless bollox, firstly concentration camp guards were SS and not conscripted soildiers, they were susposed to be "the elite". The Nazi's wernt stupid they didnt let just anybody work in the camps. They got better pay and rations than the rest of the army.

    If you lined up the guards in their prime youd see tall confident fit mostly blond men (this is the words of a jewish camp survivor who testified at trials)
    If you lined up rapists youd see, sad ugly pathetic misfits with poor social skills.
    And your honestly trying to tell me youd judge them more harshly than someone who's whole carea has been dedicated to torturing, starving and murdering millions, over 10 years of comfort to them, when they could have done something else.

    And comparing Guantanamo bay to the holochaust is just plain stupid, lets look at the numbers and justification shall we.


    Ill finish this later got to go to a shitty boring meeting now,
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That's not true, anyone can be a rapist. Quite often the people you'd least suspect in fact.

    Indeed, especially considering the occurence of it within relationships and date rape cases.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Evidence seems to suggest that many concentration camp guards also took part in rape as well as mass murder.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Evidence seems to suggest that many concentration camp guards also took part in rape as well as mass murder.

    Thus offering an even closer comparison with a journalist...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Thus offering an even closer comparison with a journalist...

    ...... unspeakable things for money ......

    Perhaps its too sophisticated an analogy for you

    :eek:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ...... unspeakable things for money ......

    It's unspeakable to be a journalist?

    Would you say the same about Paul Foot?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    http://www.answers.com/concentration+camp&r=67
    Thats total clueless bollox, firstly concentration camp guards were SS and not conscripted soildiers, they were susposed to be "the elite". The Nazi's wernt stupid they didnt let just anybody work in the camps. They got better pay and rations than the rest of the army.

    Well, I apologise for my total cluelessness. But, in mitigation I ask for mercy, after all it isn't only me who made that mistake - The Danish Centre for Holocaust Studies seem to be equally clueless. Be so kind as to post up your letter of admonition to them would you?
    The SS was responsible for the administration of the extermination camps. Day by day management was taken care of in part by policemen from the Euthanasia Programme (the “mercy killings” of disabled Germans).

    In most of the extermination camps the camp guards, especially the leaders, were members of the SS’s notorious Totenkopfverbände – the black-uniformed Death Head’s Unit. These guards were recruited from Theodor Eicke’s tough school –he was the man who had developed the concentration camp system in Dachau and had trained these men in the former concentration camps.

    The ordinary guards were usually Ukrainians or Balts, who in many eyewitness accounts are presented as violent thugs.

    Now go fuck yourself. :)
    If you lined up the guards in their prime youd see tall confident fit mostly blond men (this is the words of a jewish camp survivor who testified at trials)
    If you lined up rapists youd see, sad ugly pathetic misfits with poor social skills.
    Thats total clueless bollox

    OverweightGuards.jpg

    Not tall, not blonde, not men........ ie shit generalisation - life isn't quite as simple as you.

    Your ignorance about rape is totally astounding too......

    And your honestly trying to tell me youd judge them more harshly than someone who's whole carea has been dedicated to torturing, starving and murdering millions, over 10 years of comfort to them, when they could have done something else.

    And comparing Guantanamo bay to the holochaust is just plain stupid, lets look at the numbers and justification shall we.

    The power of propaganda ......... nice boys doing unspeakable things cos they're too scared to say no/and ot need the money.

    Do you know what a concentration camp is? Erm, its a place just like Guantanamofuckingbay
    concentration camp
    n.
    A camp where civilians, enemy aliens, political prisoners, and sometimes prisoners of war are detained and confined, typically under harsh conditions.
    A place or situation characterized by extremely harsh conditions.

    http://www.answers.com/concentration+camp&r=67

    They even existed before the Germans had them ......... like the ones the Brits ran during the Boer War f'rinstance .........

    Ill finish this later got to go to a shitty boring meeting now,

    Good - hope it lasts ages.....
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's unspeakable to be a journalist?

    Would you say the same about Paul Foot?

    Are you being purposely dimwitted?

    Paul Foot liked to have Daily Fascist editors for breakfast.

    And, believe it or not, I'm not Ken - he's a toerag.

    But hey, I've read your posts - I recognise the line of thinking......


    :crazyeyes
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Are you being purposely dimwitted?

    Just trying to get down to your level :p
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i'm up my own bum :lol:

    good one free :thumb:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Paul Foot liked to have Daily Fascist editors for breakfast.

    Didn't he once take the Mirror shilling? Then owned by a certain polish gentleman of dubious morals...

    The problem with the analogy is that no-one has shown when this journo has actually written any facist supporting, anti-semitic/racist garbage. So he isn't taking the money and "just following orders".

    If Ken cannot take close attention from the media then he really is in the wrong business...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Didn't he once take the Mirror shilling? Then owned by a certain polish gentleman of dubious morals...

    The problem with the analogy is that no-one has shown when this journo has actually written any facist supporting, anti-semitic/racist garbage. So he isn't taking the money and "just following orders".

    If Ken cannot take close attention from the media then he really is in the wrong business...

    The Mirror is somewhat less fascistic than the Hate Mail, whoever owns it....

    Ken,s a twat, the corporate media are twats- so what else is new?

    Phoney says Ken should apologise.

    Millions of us think Tony should apologise.

    Phoney's vendetta against the BBC puts Livingstones boring comment to shame.....
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Phoney says Ken should apologise.

    Millions of us think Tony should apologise.

    Phoney's vendetta against the BBC puts Livingstones boring comment to shame.....
    Kenny can get some cheap Brownie (nose) points from the Leaderene by issuing a standard 'if I've offended anyone' apology.

    Every one wins :D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Heh! Google: livingstone anti-semitism and this thread comes first ;)
    This was a 25-year victim of proctological examination by a sadistic gossip machine.

    As Livingstone tells it, they offered his ex-wife £50,000 to tell her story. They snooped around friends and neighbours to try to discover if he had been unfaithful to his lover. They triggered an investigation of him by the Standards Board for England about a dust-up at a party that found him not guilty.

    That makes them odious, he believes, and deserving of the kind of sharp criticism his explosion and his follow-up comments were intended to suggest. No matter how much the paper paid him for reviewing London restaurants, the management and staff are nothing but scumbags. A number of respected press critics would agree with him, and they have offered just such criticism, though in somewhat different language. But their point is the same: Associated makes a living looking for love in all the wrong places.

    Read more...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Good article.

    And not the only person to come up in defence of Livingstone...


    Mr Boris Johnson in today's Telegraph:
    We have in our newspapers a non-story, a media spat, about the insults that newt-fancier Ken Livingstone is alleged to have dished out, on leaving a party, to a reporter from the Evening Standard.

    [...]Well, I do not normally side with Red Ken, but on this occasion I say, Ken, whatever you do, don't apologise. Tell the papers to take a running jump, and tell Blair to join them.

    :D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Johann Hari has sprung to his defence, too. That fella's making a lot more sense these days, since he stopped defending the Iraqi invasion to the hilt. He'll probably add to his comments on 'Question Time' tonight, along with Diane Abbott and Heather Mills
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Gilad Atzmon too:
    KEN Livingstone, the Mayor of the multi ethnic city of London, is asked to apologise after comparing an 'Evening Standard' reporter to a "concentration camp guard". Like many other inhabitants of this colourful metropolis, I ask myself why should he apologise? As it seems, the answer is simple: he dared to insult a Jew. He neither referred to any Jewish characteristic the journalist may have had, nor did he refer to the reporter's ethnic origin. The Mayor was just insulting a man who happened to be a Jew. In politically correct Britain this is unacceptable.

    :yes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Taken from the Gilad Atzmon link:

    'The fact that millions of non-Jews died in Nazi concentration camps is completely irrelevant for them'

    I for one and many others were offended and upset that this received little or no recognition in the recent commemorations. This type of insensitivity is an insult to the memory of all those who died in the camps. It was obscene and exactly the kind of thing which is helping fuel GENUINE anti-semitism. :mad:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have seen lots of recognition of the fact that non jews died in the holocaust and thought it was pretty well known that the nazis hated anyone who was black/disabled/gay/ a gypsy, as well as Jewish people.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In fact, the "theme" for the recent Holocaust Memorial Day was 'From the Holocaust to Rwanda: Lessons learned, lessons still to learn.' It is the tenth anniversary of the genocide in Rwanda in which almost a million people were killed in the space of just a hundred days.

    not just focussing on jewish people, but was also aimed to reflect upon more recent genocides, such as Rwanda and Cambodia.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    PussyKatty wrote:
    In fact, the "theme" for the recent Holocaust Memorial Day was 'From the Holocaust to Rwanda: Lessons learned, lessons still to learn.' It is the tenth anniversary of the genocide in Rwanda in which almost a million people were killed in the space of just a hundred days.

    not just focussing on jewish people, but was also aimed to reflect upon more recent genocides, such as Rwanda and Cambodia.

    That was last years theme.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru

    That article is horrible. The writer is making deliberate misinterpretations and his tone has an anti-Semitic undercurrent. Were his background different I think he’d find it harder to get away with writing that sort of stuff.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh well. My case still remains.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    PussyKatty wrote:
    Oh well. My case still remains.

    Not having a go Puss, I'm glad you have an awareness of the Holocaust but you'd be surprised how many haven't and thats where the problem lies.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That article is horrible. The writer is making deliberate misinterpretations and his tone has an anti-Semitic undercurrent. Were his background different I think he’d find it harder to get away with writing that sort of stuff.

    :yes: what struck me especially was: "Following the twisted logic of the Jewish Board of Deputies: offending one Jew is an assault against the entire 'chosen race'." - it's the way he says chosen race, like he's got an inferiority complex and dislikes Jews because he beleives they think they are better. But that's what I picked up in a glance, so don't hold me to it :p
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