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and we know youre not a thick idiot either, we might disagree with you on mny issues but however this is a case of playing the race card to get around a perfectly fine insult, he compared him a nazi guard cause theyre the people who famously used the "i followed orders" argument
lets hope ken gets nothing bad on his name cause of this -if someone dislike his policies, then sure or his credability on his policies, but just to say "hes racist scum" without proof is proper out of order
the annoying thing about playing the race card is that it waters down the anti-racism movement which im firmly with
Point taken anyway- I'll try to be crystal clear in the future regarding what was or wasn't said.
As for Ken, we all say things in the heat of the moment that we come to regret later. I sometimes disagree with his politics, especially his rampant hypocrisy over what exactly constitutes 'public transport' and his concept of his 'London' being the area enclosed within his arbitrary congestion charging zone, but he's not stupid enough to consciously say something he knows will be offensive. In fact, it sounds like his comments were entirely justified - and I fail to see how a Jew is somehow unable to act like a concentration camp guard just because of what happened during the Holocaust.
"After nearly a quarter of a century of their behaviour and tactics, I cannot say to you words I do not believe in my heart," he said on Monday.
Mr Livingstone said his comments reflected the "level of loathing and disgust" he felt "for the racism they have perpetuated for over 100 years".
He added the Evening Standard was full of "scumbags and reactionary bigots".
Go Ken
A concentration camp guard is worse than a peodiphile or rapist and deserves death or life in prison.
Does Ken honestly think thats a appropiate comparison, its a bit like saying someone who shouts "get yout tits out" at a girl is as bad as a rapist.
The charge of bigotry however is more serious and carries a serious penalty, this is the important issue......
I think if anything Ken could apologise (or at least clarify) to the Jewish community at large that he was not making fun of the bloke's Jewishness (because he wasn't) but rather making a personal attack to a bloke who has been harassing Livingstone as part of a repulsive and racist newspaper's campaign against him.
Frankly I'd be happy to call anyone who works for Associated Newspapers a Nazi, regardless of their ethnicity.
The Board of Deputies of British Jews has lost the plot completely by lodging a complaint. This is not attack on Jewish people; it is a personal attack on a no-mark tabloid journo who's been more than happy to participate in a campaign of harassment conducted by a bigoted scumbag publication.
I am sorry but as I said this is actually counterproductive to the fight against real anti-semitism.
I am sure there are many other metaphors which would fit the situation just as good if not better, yet not be totally insensitive.
I'm not a big fan of the Standard or Mail (or Mirror or Sun come to that), but to compare a journalist trying to get a story to people who butchered 10m+ people seems to suggest a lack of perspective sadly unbecoming in a senior politician.
1. Being nasty to the Mayor of London in print
2. Starving and murdering personlly a few thousand people watching them starve and be worked to death, or just killed, and then going home to a nice meal.
I dont see how their comparable.
Why didnt he just call the guy an ignorant lying arsehole or something ?
The remark os just bringing what's acceptable to another low in my opinion.
Indeed.
Concentration Camp guards were all former journalists :rolleyes:
The guards claimed that they were only following orders, something which the journalist never suggested that this was the case for him.
From what we have heard, his one crime was to dog Ken. To basically pester him.
It certainly wasn't comparable to what the guards at the extermination camps were guilty of. If Ken cannot distinguish between the two then he has a serious problem.
I think he should apologise for causing offence and I cannot understand why he seems to have difficulty in doing so.
I repeat, didn't Ken once work them?
Well why don't we all just go around accusing each other of being Adolf Hitlers and Eichmanns?
Comparing a journalist who works for a profoundly racist and formerly pro-Nazi company to a concentration camp guard is, I'll admit, a comparison that lacks in any proportion, but in essence it is the same principle. Nevertheless, the consequences of bad journalism and working as a concentration camp guard couldn't of course be any different.
What Livingstone has done here is not unlike that 'Golding's Law' (is it 'Golding'?)you see mentioned on bulletin boards all the time: suggesting that certain acts perceived as bad or unacceptable are as bad as those committed by the Nazis. The biggest problem with this is that it lowers the tone of the Holocaust and the true horrors of Nazism- but this is something nonetheless that most of us have done at one time or another.
Because he's an obstinate moron. I guess he should apologise to the Jewish community if they have taken any offence at the remark, even if he refuses to apologise to the journo himself.
Still, if I were him, I would emphasise that "Apologies to anyone who was offended, but as I said this is a personal matter for the journo concerned and I, not anyone else."
Another matter altogether is the journo and paper releasing the records of private altercation to the four winds with such diligence. No doubt they felt that the tapes had to be released in the interests of truth and justice and that they sought no gain or publicity from the guaranteed turmoil...
I don't know the record of this particular journalist, but it is true that Associated Newspapers in general and the Standard in particular have been bashing Ken Livingstone absolutely non-stop for the last 3 or 4 years. And more importantly, completely unfairly in the immense majority of cases. It looks to me that Livingstone finally snapped at that party.
I don't know. Did he?
Sorry, how does a concentration camp guard get to be worse than a rapist?
What "morality list" are you using?
Heh, I've been liened to them enough times, usually by US Christian zionists.....
Not even Jewish people have said he's racist (though some might insinuate the comments themselves were anti-semitic) so do elaborate on the "racist" charge please...
Explain why or how he's "anti Jewish". Or retract it.
Unless you're trying to be deliberately obtuse.
Kuntroy-Stink: "Arabs are a bunch of good-for-nothing, wife-beating murderers.
Verdict: racist
Please do point us out as to where Ken Livingstone has said anything like that about Jewish people.
Fuck off you idiot.
No surprise Luke, no surprise.
Disgusting :no:
If you really think that the statement "Arabs are a bunch of good-for-nothing, wife-beating murderers" is ''far from racist" but "realist" instead, you are OFFICIALLY a racist.
Congratulations Luke.
Please spare us any further protestations when people accuse you of racism or compare you with the occasional BNP troll who joins the boards. You're no different from them.