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Legalisation

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Blagsta
    No, its still rubbish. The two things are just not comparable.



    Again, the two things are not comparable. Speeding can cause death or injury to other people. How does smoking cannabis in your own home do this? :confused::confused:


    Stop trying to equate the examples and try to see the point being made!

    A person cannot argue anything on the right to free choice, because of the implications of the arguement.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You're not making any point (or indeed, much sense).
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Blagsta
    You're not making any point (or indeed, much sense).

    Here is the point:

    Arguing the right to grow your own drugs based on the right to free choice is self-defeating because of the implications of the arguement 'right to free choice'.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    Actually all rights were approved because of the consent of the majority. The geneva convention would hardly work if only one country signed it would it? Where is it written that anyone has the basic right to anything without the consent of others, either implicitly, or by actively consenting to it.

    Every argument you've put up gets knocked down, yet you still come up with even more absurd assertions.

    Now you've got no arguments left, you're trying to hide behind some kind of "life isn't fair" stance which you've totally contradicted elsewhere on this forum (forest gump/human nature).

    As a plain question, do YOU believe it's appropriate that people should be aquiring criminal records and getting banged up for growing their own weed for themself and their pals? Forget the whole consent stuff, we're talking about your opinion.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    Here is the point:

    Arguing the right to grow your own drugs based on the right to free choice is self-defeating because of the implications of the arguement 'right to free choice'.

    Again, this doesn't make sense. You cannot draw the same conclusions about things which are totally different (i.e. growing weed and murder). I believe it might be called a "category error".
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Spliffie
    Every argument you've put up gets knocked down, yet you still come up with even more absurd assertions.

    Now you've got no arguments left, you're trying to hide behind some kind of "life isn't fair" stance which you've totally contradicted elsewhere on this forum (forest gump/human nature).

    As a plain question, do YOU believe it's appropriate that people should be aquiring criminal records and getting banged up for growing their own weed for themself and their pals? Forget the whole consent stuff, we're talking about your opinion.

    You consider by assertations absurd because you don't understand them. Life isn't fair, this is something I have never denied, it doesn't mean I like it (re: human nature).

    And if you read my post record, which may take an awful long time by now, I have been very careful about posting my direct opinion, I'm not about to start now.

    The law, is the law, go change it if you want to.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Blagsta
    Again, this doesn't make sense. You cannot draw the same conclusions about things which are totally different (i.e. growing weed and murder). I believe it might be called a "category error".

    A sensible person cannot draw the same conclusions about things that are totally different, and indeed, I would not. This is not a standard that can be expected of the general public. I can see the potential for ridiculous counter-arguement, why can't you?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    A sensible person cannot draw the same conclusions about things that are totally different, and indeed, I would not.

    But you are. :confused:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Blagsta
    But you are. :confused:

    No, I'm not, I'm stating the potential for them. There's a difference.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    You consider by assertations absurd because you don't understand them. Life isn't fair, this is something I have never denied, it doesn't mean I like it (re: human nature).

    And if you read my post record, which may take an awful long time by now, I have been very careful about posting my direct opinion, I'm not about to start now.

    The law, is the law, go change it if you want to.

    So you try to argue with opinions that aren't yours?

    Sorry pal, I think you just can't admit you've been soundly beaten in debate.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So you try to argue with opinions that aren't yours?

    Sorry pal, I think you just can't admit you've been soundly beaten in debate. Either that or you're fucking out of your mind :eek2:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Spliffie
    So you try to argue with opinions that aren't yours?

    Sorry pal, I think you just can't admit you've been soundly beaten in debate.

    The opinion that using the argument 'right to free choice' is foolish is mine, I'm using arguments that other people may use to make that point.


    The only way a person can be 'beaten' in debate is by having their opinion changed by the opposing argument, in which case, you are just as 'beaten' as me.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    No, I'm not, I'm stating the potential for them. There's a difference.

    No, you're saying that the personal choice to smoke weed is morally comparable to the personal choice to murder someone. It isn't.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Blagsta
    No, you're saying that the personal choice to smoke weed is morally comparable to the personal choice to murder someone. It isn't.

    No I'm not. Don't put words in my mouth it's extremly rude.

    I am saying that the main argument for legalising canabis is the right to free choice. Which not only simply exists as a concept not as a true reality. Can also be abused by people wanting things which aren't as 'harmless'.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    The opinion that using the argument 'right to free choice' is foolish is mine, I'm using arguments that other people may use to make that point.


    The only way a person can be 'beaten' in debate is by having their opinion changed by the opposing argument, in which case, you are just as 'beaten' as me.

    Well, how about using arguments that you would use to make that point? Basically you've just said you consider supporting the notion of free choice (when it affects nobody but the decision-maker) foolish, but you don't have any arguments of your own to back it up.

    I think it's obvious for all to see you've got no real knowledge of the topic.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Spliffie
    Well, how about using arguments that you would use to make that point? Basically you've just said you consider supporting the notion of free choice (when it affects nobody but the decision-maker) foolish, but you don't have any arguments of your own to back it up.

    I think it's obvious for all to see you've got no real knowledge of the topic.

    To have real knowledge I have to be drug user do I?

    Free choice has to be balanced with responsibility, do you agree?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    No I'm not. Don't put words in my mouth it's extremly rude.

    Well what the hell are you saying?
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    I am saying that the main argument for legalising canabis is the right to free choice. Which not only simply exists as a concept not as a true reality. Can also be abused by people wanting things which aren't as 'harmless'.

    No, that is not the main argument for legalising cannabis. It is one of the arguments, but not the main one.
    And anyway, are you arguing that people don't have the free choice to do things that don't harm anyone else? Sorry, that's bollocks. Morally I have the free choice to smoke weed if I want. It might be illegal, but I still have that free moral choice.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    To have real knowledge I have to be drug user do I?

    No, but it might be an idea to know something about the subject.
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    Free choice has to be balanced with responsibility, do you agree?

    Yes. What has that to do with smoking cannabis? :confused::confused:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Blagsta
    No, that is not the main argument for legalising cannabis. It is one of the arguments, but not the main one.
    And anyway, are you arguing that people don't have the free choice to do things that don't harm anyone else? Sorry, that's bollocks. Morally I have the free choice to smoke weed if I want. It might be illegal, but I still have that free moral choice.

    Excuse me, one of the arguments.

    Who gives you this moral free choice? Where does it come from?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Blagsta
    Yes. What has that to do with smoking cannabis? :confused::confused:


    That if you want to grow your own, you must be correspondingly responsible for it's use and actions under the influence. Ie making sure that you don't provide it to those who are underage (assuming there'd be an age limit), or that if you were stoned you'd take responsibility for an accident if you unaware steped into a road, or decided to drive a car.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    No I'm not. Don't put words in my mouth it's extremly rude.

    I am saying that the main argument for legalising canabis is the right to free choice. Which not only simply exists as a concept not as a true reality. Can also be abused by people wanting things which aren't as 'harmless'.

    Well then isn't the answer to differentiate between freedom of choice leading to harm to others and freedom of choice which effects no-one but the person making the choice? How many times does it need to be said?

    Let's take a theoretical example. You're appointed drugs tzar, and have the ability to control drugs policy at your discretion. Knowing that growing & smoking weed does not interfere with anyone else but the people doing the growing or smoking, would you not legalise, and if not, why not?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    Excuse me, one of the arguments.

    Who gives you this moral free choice? Where does it come from?

    I gave it to myself.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Spliffie
    Well then isn't the answer to differentiate between freedom of choice leading to harm to others and freedom of choice which effects no-one but the person making the choice? How many times does it need to be said?

    it hadn't been said until that very post.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    That if you want to grow your own, you must be correspondingly responsible for it's use and actions under the influence. Ie making sure that you don't provide it to those who are underage (assuming there'd be an age limit), or that if you were stoned you'd take responsibility for an accident if you unaware steped into a road, or decided to drive a car.

    And all the people I know who grow their own do exactly that.

    Sorry, what was your point again? :confused:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    it hadn't been said until that very post.

    Yes it had.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Blagsta
    And all the people I know who grow their own do exactly that.

    Sorry, what was your point again? :confused:

    An agreement that it was necessary, not voluntary. The people you know are responsible out of choice, not everyone behaves the same way.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Blagsta
    Yes it had.

    So you continued to argue for what reason? Why didn't you just direct me to it?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    That if you want to grow your own, you must be correspondingly responsible for it's use and actions under the influence. Ie making sure that you don't provide it to those who are underage (assuming there'd be an age limit), or that if you were stoned you'd take responsibility for an accident if you unaware steped into a road, or decided to drive a car.

    Driving under the influence of cannabis is obviously illegal, it would obviously continue to be so in the event of legalisation.

    It's what free the weed campaigners have been saying for a long time, i'm glad you've finally agreed :D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    So you continued to argue for what reason? Why didn't you just direct me to it?

    'cos I'm not your mother
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    An agreement that it was necessary, not voluntary. The people you know are responsible out of choice, not everyone behaves the same way.

    True. And if cannabis was legalised, then people might be more inclined to behave responsibly. In the same way that most pubs and off licences won't serve under 18's and most people won't drink and drive.
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