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Legalisation
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Is legalising cannabis dutch-style the way forward? Is prohibtion an infringement on our personal rights? Most definitely!
One thing that really pisses me off is the current situation with cultivation for personal use. What right does some fool in parliament have to criminalise & imprison people for growing their own supply? We live in a fucked up world
And on the same topic, it's about time criminalisation of ecstasy was repealed and we got some kind of quality control in place.
One thing that really pisses me off is the current situation with cultivation for personal use. What right does some fool in parliament have to criminalise & imprison people for growing their own supply? We live in a fucked up world
And on the same topic, it's about time criminalisation of ecstasy was repealed and we got some kind of quality control in place.
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Perhaps, but what's to say they keep what they grow to themselves?
There are also proven links between starting on canabis and moving to harder more dangerous drugs. I'm not saying it's a given that someone will move onto hard drugs, but the links are there.
Well if everyone who smokes grows then potential dealers won't have a market lol.
Those supposed links are redundant. If anything, alcohol is the initial gateway, not cannabis.
Now that's an example of pure logic
Alcohol is less a link than canabis, I don't think dealers will disappear just because people can grow their own either. There's still a 'market' for herion LSD cocaine etc.
Alcohol is more of a gateway than cannabis if you're a subscriber to this gateway theory, because put simply your average stoner/smackhead/cokehead starts off with alcohol as a teenager. if you're going to make a claim then at least back it up with some reasoning.
As for dealers, I'm referring to your suggestion that legalising cultivation would offer growers the opportunity to become dealers. Obviously there's still going to be markets for coke, LSD and smack, but it seems more than a little counter-productive for the government to force a large part of the cannabis business into the hands of trafficers rather than allow users to produce their own personal supply.
Then allowing people to grow their own wouldn't actually impact the crime surround dealing and drug addiction?
Did I say it would?
No, but how would growing your own really help?
1. You reduce crime by legalisation...more free time for the pigs to combat real crime.
2. You prevent decent people getting banged up for the supposed crime of growing a few plants .
3. You prevent people from smoking shit-quality hash cut with all sorts.
4. You end infringement of people's liberties.
5. You reap a fair amount of tax.
6. You take the cannabis market from the hands of organised crime.
What more do you need?
1. I'm not conviced that legalising it would reduce crime, as there would be crime associated with people being legally stoned, as there are with people being drunk.
2. It still a crime, that's why they're banged up
3. People don't have to smoke it, prevention isn't necessary, considering it's illegal.
4. Why is it an infringment of liberty?
5. It's no more right to legalise canabis for tax reasons is no more right than keeping smoking legal for tax reasons. Especially considering the health risks.
6. yeah, you take it out of organised crime, so what? There's still organised crime
I don't approve of drugs at all. I hate smoking, I only accept alcohol because people can drink socially, they don't have to get drunk. The whole point of other recreational drugs is to get stoned, to lose control. And things that happened in my life mean that I can't accept it. There aren't good enough reasons for legalisation.
1. You obviously have no idea about cannabis. People don't commit crime when high, you don't get anti-social behaviour from people who are stoned. What kind of crime are you talking about?
2. So the law is something that can't be questioned when decent people are going to jail for completely victimless crime?
3. No idea what you're trying to say here. People smoke bad hash = health problems, strain on NHS. Why not provide quality control & reduce health problems?
4. It's self-explanatory. If people want to smoke dope they've got a right to do so. They're not harming anyone. It's called freedom of choice.
5. In this world, money talks. Cannabis was banned in the first place partly because of financial reasons (linked to hemp production).
6. You're reducing their scope for profit. As the most widely used drug in the West, it stands to reason organised crime makes a shitload from its criminalisation.
People don't get high "to lose control". Alcohol makes you lose control more than any other mainsteam drug I know of.
I know it's not a victimless crime because of the way that the stoners who smoke on the green over my back wall behave. I know it's not victimless because when I was 13 a close friend of mine who was 14 was raped, because she was too stoned to even scream.
I've posted before that the risks to health have the equivalence of 3 joints to 20 high tar cigarrettes, therefore the risks of cancer and heart disease are higher. Not to mention the possible risks of mental damage ie schizophrenia and acute paranoia.
People argue that it should be legal to smoke canabis because it is freely provided on the planet by the grace of God. You can argue that rape should be legal by the same principal that sex is provide on Earth by the grace of God. Tell me how you feel if your sister were raped. I know they aren't even close to being the same kind of crime, but I hope you can see my point.
The stoners you know who smoke the green are probably just arseholes, the drug doesn't cause deliquency, it leads you to certain conclusions (why do you think hippies smoke it with such a passion). Pacifism, greater creativity, empathy...
The health risks are very true, smoking ain't good for you but the Royal Society of Medecine would disagree that 3 joints = 20 high tar fags. It all depends on what you're smoking (heavily cut hash, pure grass, how much tobacco it's mixed with).
As for the rape thing...totally illogical...rape violates the individual, it goes against their will...how can you compare rape to smoking cannabis? It says in the bible itself god put all herbs on the earth for the "service of man".
Sorry to hear about your friend, but blame the rapist, not the weed. Plenty of rapes happen while the victim is drunk, that doesnt mean the answer is prohibition of alcohol.
I love to smoke dope, it's my thing, and has mellowed me right out. No-one, especially not some ignorant politician twat, has the right to dictate otherwise.
It's time to legalise
Submission accepted
aside from that, cannabis isn't quite as victimless as people may think
regarding cannabis and mental health, its not about the quality of the drugrather the effect it can have and someones predisposition to mental health problems
No there aren't.
Eh?
depends how you read the scientific press
below are some abstracts from journals
the essesnce is that in some cases there are connections.
Behav Genet. 2004 May;34(3):217-28 Agrawal A, Neale MC, Prescott CA, Kendler KS
http://content.kluweronline.com/article/481147/fulltext.pdf
Marijuana and tobacco: a major connection?
Tullis LM, Dupont R, Frost-Pineda K, Gold MS.
University of Florida, P.O. Box 100183, Gainesville, FL 32610-0183, USA.
Smoking among teens and college students is a significant public health challenge. Tobacco, marijuana, and alcohol continue to be the most commonly abused drugs by teens and young adults. Educational efforts have resulted in increased awareness of the mortality and morbidity attributed to smoking, second-hand smoke, and prenatal exposure to tobacco. Short- and long-term consequences of marijuana use are well documented in the literature, but they have received less wide spread attention. Even less well known is the relationship between these substances. Does use of one lead to use of the other? Are there synergistic and/or antagonistic effects when these substances are used together? We need answers to these questions to understand the prevalence of use and the impact of these drugs on our nations youth and young adults. The gateway theory of drug use is often used to describe the progression from using alcohol or tobacco, to marijuana, and later use of other drugs like MDMA, cocaine, and heroin. While tobacco use does commonly precede marijuana use, we propose that marijuana may be a "gateway drug" to tobacco smoking. Our research with university students is suggesting that cigarette-smoking initiation often follows or coincides with marijuana.
PMID: 14621344 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Addiction. 2002 Dec;97(12):1493-504. Related Articles, Links
Comment in:
Addiction. 2002 Dec;97(12):1505.
Addiction. 2002 Dec;97(12):1505-7.
Addiction. 2002 Dec;97(12):1505-7.
Reassessing the marijuana gateway effect.
Morral AR, McCaffrey DF, Paddock SM.
Drug Policy Research Center, RAND, Arlington, VA 22202, USA. morral@rand.org
AIMS: Strong associations between marijuana use and initiation of hard drugs are cited in support of the claim that marijuana use per se increases youths' risk of initiating hard drugs (the 'marijuana gateway' effect). This report examines whether these associations could instead be explained as the result of a common factor-drug use propensity-influencing the probability of both marijuana and other drug use. DESIGN: A model of adolescent drug use initiation in the United States is constructed using parameter estimates derived from US household surveys of drug use conducted between 1982 and 1994. Model assumptions include: (1) individuals have a non-specific random propensity to use drugs that is normally distributed in the population; (2) this propensity is correlated with the risk of having an opportunity to use drugs and with the probability of using them given an opportunity, and (3) neither use nor opportunity to use marijuana is associated with hard drug initiation after conditioning on drug use propensity. FINDINGS: Each of the phenomena used to support claims of a 'marijuana gateway effect' are reproduced by the model, even though marijuana use has no causal influence over hard drug initiation in the model. CONCLUSIONS: Marijuana gateway effects may exist. However, our results demonstrate that the phenomena used to motivate belief in such an effect are consistent with an alternative simple, plausible common-factor model. No gateway effect is required to explain them. The common-factor model has implications for evaluating marijuana control policies that differ significantly from those supported by the gateway model.
Publication Types:
Review
Review, Tutorial
PMID: 12472629 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
J Adolesc Health. 2001 Dec;29(6):386-94. Related Articles, Links
The relative influence of smoking on drinking and drinking on smoking among high school students in a rural tobacco-growing county.
Ritchey PN, Reid GS, Hasse LA.
Department of Sociology, University of Cincinnati, Cincinnati, Ohio, USA.
PURPOSE: To construct and estimate a model that contains a reciprocal relationship between smoking and drinking and to test whether the gateway drug thesis or the cumulative risk behaviors thesis best fits the data. METHODS: Data (n = 630) are from a survey of all students (50% female; aged 16.2 years on average; 2.4 grade point average; and 57% residing in homes with both mother and father present) in a rural, tobacco-growing county's two high schools, one public (85%) and one private, in 1993. The survey was conducted by the schools as part of their alcohol and other drugs (AOD) prevention programs and was coordinated by the county AOD Council. Students completed the questionnaires in their homerooms. Endogenous predictors of drinking and smoking include student's perception of adult drug behavior, peer pressure to drink, degree to which their friends' drink, and attitudes toward drinking and smoking. Path coefficients were estimated by using LISREL. RESULTS: The strong correlation between smoking and drinking resulted from shared causes, rather than from the effects of one type of drug use on the other. Approval of drinking had the strongest association with being a drinker (beta =.57) and with being a smoker (beta =.37). Those who found smoking offensive were less likely to be a smoker (beta = -.25). However, attitude toward smoking was not associated with being a drinker. Having drinking friends increased both the likelihood of being a drinker (beta =.29) and of being a smoker (beta =.23). Peer pressure to drink increased the likelihood of being a smoker (beta =.14) and of being a drinker (beta =.12). Students with lower grade point averages, males, older students, students in public school, and students with family structures other than both parents living in the same household were more likely to be a drinker and were more likely to be a smoker. CONCLUSIONS: Our results support the cumulative risk behaviors thesis. The link between both high-risk behaviors, smoking and drinking, results from common causes rather than from drinking leading to smoking.
PMID: 11728888 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Am J Psychiatry. 2004 Mar;161(3):501-6. Related Articles, Links
Cannabis use and age at onset of schizophrenia.
Veen ND, Selten JP, van der Tweel I, Feller WG, Hoek HW, Kahn RS.
Rudolf Magnus Institute of Neuroscience, Department of Psychiatry, University Medical Center Utrecht, The Netherlands. n.veen@azu.nl
OBJECTIVE: The purpose of the study was to assess the independent influences of gender and cannabis use on milestones of early course in schizophrenia. METHOD: In this population-based, first-contact incidence study conducted in The Hague, the Netherlands, patients (N=133) were interviewed with the Comprehensive Assessment of Symptoms and History, and key informants were interviewed with the Instrument for the Retrospective Assessment of the Onset of Schizophrenia. Milestones of early course were 1) first social and/or occupational dysfunction, 2) first psychotic episode, and 3) first negative symptoms. RESULTS: Male patients were significantly younger than female patients at first social and/or occupational dysfunction, first psychotic episode, and first negative symptoms. Cannabis-using patients were significantly younger at these milestones than were patients who did not use cannabis. Multivariate analyses showed that cannabis use, but not gender, made an independent contribution to the prediction of age at first psychotic episode: male cannabis users were a mean of 6.9 years younger at illness onset than male nonusers. In contrast, age at first social and/or occupational dysfunction and the risk of developing negative symptoms before the first contact with a physician for treatment of possible psychotic disorder were predicted by gender, but not by cannabis use. CONCLUSIONS: The results indicate a strong association between use of cannabis and earlier age at first psychotic episode in male schizophrenia patients. Additional studies examining this possibly causal relationship are needed.
Take 5 bong hits every day and you'll have problems, I can speak from experience lol. Moderation is important, as is the case with any drug, alcohol or otherwise.
Prohibition is based on ignorance, the points i've made are pretty much irrefutable.
And no, I don't smoke weed. Its boring.
Drugs are bad...umkay
Personally I don't give a toss, not about weed smokers anyway. I'm more bothered about the gang scum who supply the harder drugs.
So am I. Which is why they should be legalised.
I believe it should remain illegal, but the users should be helped.
Emphasis should be placed on the fact they are vulnerable members of society.
Much easier to wean them off the drugs than put them in prison.
The suppliers on the other hand deserve everything they get from the law. In my eyes each time they supply a dose of heroin to someone like a prostitute they are shortening her life and ruining her chances of a future. Not to mention they bring the rest of the local community down with them, ruining more lives trying to keep that lucrative patch running.
You may ask why I don't believe it should be legalised. I think it would be highly irresponsible for anyone to allow people access to even more stuff that will get them high and cause problems later on. We have enough trouble with alcohol, adding heroin and ecstasy into the mix would be insane.
That's most people's average response, but it's misguided. Our drugs laws don't work and infringe personal liberty. Look at the crime caused by heroin addiction - decriminalise and wean addicts off without forcing them towards crime to fund their habit. The government and their so-called experts would probably try this out but for public opinion.
As for ecstasy, decriminalisation is the obvious approach...the risk and nature of addiction isn't comparable to heroin, recent scientific studies have been in the drug's favour, and most importantly you can get quality control so people know what they're taking is MDMA and at what dosage.