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The Death Penalty
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But "drugs" is too wide a subject. Cannabis should be practically ignored in law- it shouldnt be *legalised* because of the floodgates argument- but many other drugs should not be ignored. Are you seriously trying to convince me that shooting up brown is comparable to having two pints of lager with your mate? Not even the most pro-drug person can argue that heroin, for instance, should be legal in a developed society.
I find it curious how people always demand freedom of human rights for things that they believe in, but not for anyone else. Blagsta, for instance, believes that shooting up heroin is a matter for one person, despite the damage it does to everyone else; being racist, however, should be banned outright immediately, with people being jailed for it.
Just an observation.
What I do object to though si the idea that the use of all drugs, in particular the heavy stuff is not an issue which has an effect beyond the individual because that is not true.......
In any case a great majority of people can and should be able to use drugs safely and legally. I am a regular user of several Class A drugs (c & e) and have never committed crimes, wrecked my life or those of people around me, lost my job, become violent etc. I suspect that is the case for most other users of the said drugs.
Alcohol is a drug far more dangerous and damaging to society than all the Class As put together. More than 100,000 people die in Britain alone every year due to drink-related diseases. And let's not even talk about drink-related crime including wife and child abuse, assaults, rape, murder, fighting or drink driving as well as accidents and mishaps of all sorts. For every drug-related death in this country there are nearly 1,000 drink-related ones. And although I don't know the full figures I think it is also safe to say there are far more drink-related crimes than drug-related ones.
If alcohol had only been discovered in the present day, you can be sure it would be immediately banned, given a Class A classification and deemed as the most dangerous substance known to mankind. I find it extraordinary that most if not all people campaigning against drugs don't seem to have a problem with alcohol being legal.
It isnt LESS harmful, just not MORE harmful. Especially given that you have to use tobacco to smoke the damn stuff:)
Thats a rather flawed argument though- disband a law simply because people choose not to obey it? Stand next to any motorway and you will see thousands of people who choose not to obey the speed limit, again indicating that "it doesnt work"- but if you suggest getting rid of the speeding laws maybe you should go and talk to the families of children killed by speeding cars. Just because people dont want to obey the law doesnt mean its a bad law.
So, why should drugs be legalised?
Why?
Not really relevant, in my opinion. To compare the two on a mean-data basis is stupid, there are tens of millions of people in this country who drink and probably only 10% of that size who do Class A or Class B drugs. Cocaine and Ecstacy are not depressants like alcohol, which explains the lack of violence, but drugs such as heroin in particular are very dangerous to society as well as to the individual.
Alcohol is not addictive to the same level that many Class A drugs are. Im unsure of the numbers, but there arent that many more members of AA than NA, and thats from a much larger sample group.
There are some very naive people who have posted in this thread (maybe just comments), I can't be arsed to go through all seven pages again to pick out quotes. I am talking about the ignorant attitudes towards prison, its unbelievable.
If you need me to point these things out it kind of proves my point.
MDMA for example is created by dodgy backstreet chemists who have no idea what the hell they are doing. It is, if used safely a relatively harmless drug, but because of poor education and the black market the harm caused by MDMA and its varients in increased.
The drugs are deemed too dangerous for legalisation should be available to those who need them through doctors. And if some of that makes its way to the street, well, is that any worse than the stuff thats there already? No, because at least the production profit wouldnt go to terrorists and mass murderers.
It makes no odds whether a drug is a depressant if you are talking about the violence which goes with it.
The cocaine trade has massive levels of violence and people on the stuff are known for being arsey.
PCP is not a depressant, far from it and users of that are famous for being prone to bursts of unbeleiveable violence.
And valium is the classic downer and I doubt anyone would think that it makes you violent.
There might not be a physical addition to alcohol (although in severe cases there is) but for many people there is certainly a psychological addition. Hell, I'm not an alcoholic and yet have to fight the urge to serve myself a glass of wine every time I see an ad for wine on TV.
But its the physical addiction that has to be concerned with, because it is far more dangerous. And heroin, and in some cases coke, creates physical addictions, which are far harder to beat IMHO.
Those who get mentally addicted could get mentally addicted to TicTacs, it doesnt mean that TicTacs should be banned.
Sorry dude, but "some of you" could have been applied to either side of the argument, depending on which way you were thinking...
You failed to state an opinion on what was being said and thus we had no-idea of who you were suggesting should - to paraphrase - "wake up and smell the roses"...
The decision to come off drugs is always the users choice. No one force them, if they want to come off, they will, if they don't, they won't.
The point with legally prescribed heroin is that most of the problems associated with heroin use is due to prohibition. Pharm grade heroin, injected using clean works, using a good injection technique, with good living conditions and diet, would actually be less harmful habit than alcohol.
A lot of the harm is down to the illegal nature of the drug.
Thank you.
Are you aiming that at me? I ain't never lived in the home counties.
Apart from high ranking police officers, drugs workers and GP's of course.
And your other point - well racism always has victims. Drug use does not always have victims.
Because (as I've repeated several times), most of the harm caused is due to prohibition.
Not true. Alcohol is actually more dangerous to withdraw from than heroin. Withdrawal from heroin can be undertaken without medical supervision and is like having a really bad flu for about 10 days. Withdrawal from a heavy longterm alcohol habit should only be done under medical supervision, as abrupt cessation can kill.
Please do.
Actually the jury is out as to whether cocaine causes physical dependance. Most professionals in the field come down on the side of psychological dependance (but this can sometimes be harder to beat than physical).
What in particular were you thinking of?
Heroin in particular. As I said earlier pharm grade heroin is not actually that harmful to the body. Most of the harm comes from the fact that it is produced on the black market, without proper quality control, its cut with all sorts of crap to make it go further and to increase profits to dealers, the strength is unknown leading to risk of OD, the price is artificially high so users have to make loads of money (usually through crime) to support a habit, because of the high profit margins there is a lot of violence associated with the trade, which is the control of violent gangsters etc.
They have NEVER known it so good, the market in the UK is thought to be worth upwards of 8 billion pounds a year! That all goes into the pockets of criminals and a percentage goes out of the country supporting some of the nastiest people in the world.
If the government were to take over this whole market and only charge 1/3rd of the market rate that would still mean over 2.5 billion for treatment, education, prevention, enforcement etc.
err... don't you live in Brixton? or is that Bongbudda?
What makes you think that a legal company would charge any less?
Maybe this is indeed a major problem to legalisation, companies wont sell it because if they charge high prices and the addicts can't afford it then they will get illegally anyway etc.
Yes. And?
Heroin is already made and used legally in hospitals. Its way cheaper than the black market price.
Brixton is in London which is bang slap in the middle of the Home Counties.
I really am quite speechless at this. :eek: