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'Is it the girls fault for wearing a short skirt'

13

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JoeLeeFTW wrote: »
    Your right clementine, I'm wrong. Women in no way dress more risque now than they did 50 years ago.

    Do you think that rape is only a recent thing then?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    This is how I feel...

    Nobody is saying people can't talk about rape, but the vast majority of jokes make the scenario of rape out to be funny when it isn't and never will be. I think that this reflects upon society's attitudes towards the (mostly female) people who experience being raped. There have been a few people who may have made comedy out of rape culture, or other stereotyping, but it's different to what Frankie Boyle said about that paralympian (forgot her name) or Daniel Tosh. It undermines the suffering of people.

    AR, of course, don't go to a gig with a sexist 'comedian' like FB, but people tell rape jokes quite casually... Though this thread has been derailed. Eep.

    People make sick jokes on basically everything going. Rape/racist/sexist jokes are pretty main stream now, but I've also seen sick jokes about peadophilia, Dale Cregan, April Jones, Maddie McCann, James Bulger, etc etc. Unfortunately it's the taboo factor that makes these jokes all the more appealing. People find these jokes so funny because they're so shocking and controversial.

    I think people just need to use their common sense about when/where to say these jokes though. I.E. you don't start saying racist jokes (about black people) around black people. You don't say rape jokes around victims, etc.

    OP (and the people who agreed with his premise): People have said my points already but at least if I ever get raped wearing a tracksuit I have your approval that it wasn't my fault for "tempting" the rapist. Whatever would I have done without it?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Threxy agree with most of what you say apart from
    I think people just need to use their common sense about when/where to say these jokes though. I.E. you don't start saying racist jokes (about black people) around black people. You don't say rape jokes around victims, etc.

    If someone says a racist joke why is there an assumption that because I'm white and British that I'm not going to be offended by it? Saying a racist joke doesn't suddenly become okay when a black person isn't around.

    Same for jokes about rape. How are you going to know that the person you are telling it to wasn't sexually assaulted or raped?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Threxy agree with most of what you say apart from

    If someone says a racist joke why is there an assumption that because I'm white and British that I'm not going to be offended by it? Saying a racist joke doesn't suddenly become okay when a black person isn't around.

    Same for jokes about rape. How are you going to know that the person you are telling it to wasn't sexually assaulted or raped?

    I think I phrased that wrong. I mean, if you're around your close mates who you're most likely to know everything about. Obviously only a dickhead or selfish person will go out and make crude jokes to absolute strangers.

    BTW I confess to making racist jokes too, to my Asian friend, she finds it funny and makes them herself, so nobody gets hurt. Obviously I wouldn't go up to random Asian people (or people in general for that matter) and start making those jokes because I know I might offend somebody and risk getting battered or at least very frowned upon for it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If it's down to what a woman is wearing, how come elderly women get raped? Don't see many of them wearing mini skirts.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    Shyboy... If society shames men so much, then why are rape jokes, which shame the victim-survivor so prevalent in mainstream comedy?

    Are they? Really?

    The only place I've ever seen a rape joke is Sickipedia, hardly mainstream.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    People say 'fraped' when someone updates there facebook status without permission. This really upsets me. Someone has typed something on your facebook, you've not had something disgusting forced inside your body. I hate it everytime I see it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That's a good example. When I played sports, we had yawn rape, someone would stick their finger in your mouth when you yawned. It just says that while the jokes mentioned by me and AR wouldn't be told in public. There are still public rape jokes. But I think the same thing happens with holocaust/genocide.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote: »
    That's a good example. When I played sports, we had yawn rape, someone would stick their finger in your mouth when you yawned. It just says that while the jokes mentioned by me and AR wouldn't be told in public. There are still public rape jokes. But I think the same thing happens with holocaust/genocide.

    Yeah a haaaalarious ex boyfriend thought it was witty to shout 'you're a jew!!' at his friends and me. It's just stupid humour
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Actually, I was thinking of a facebook friends asking how many spiders they could kill before it was a genocide.

    How was shouting you're a jew funny for him?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Woop woop it's the sound of da joke police!

    I tell racist jokes to my black, Indian and mixed race friends. We laugh. I wouldn't tell a racist joke around someone I didn't know, even if it was the best racist joke I knew, because I don't want people to think I'm racist. Because I'm not.

    The same arguments should be advanced against people who want to be the moral arbiters of funny as to those who want to be the moral arbiters of language in general: you're missing the point entirely and what makes you think you'd be qualified to police what I can hear even if you weren't so off the mark? What, presumably, you want to effect a change in is people's attitudes - in your cack-handed, misguidedly liberal way - not the way people express those attitudes. I want racists to use the word 'nigger'. I want shitty comedians to tell shitty rape jokes. Because this way I can identify who's a cunt and who isn't. And I wouldn't dream of patronising the victims of rape or racism by electing myself Sanitiser of Worlds.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Woop woop it's the sound of da joke police!

    No, genuine curiosity, it might be funny. I like funny.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sorry, that wasn't aimed at you, rather the last few posts in general. We cool g'?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This thread is a little off topic now I think.

    I am always a little dismayed at how much of a big deal people make about these bits here or there about jokes or whatever relating to rape.

    We don't have a culture of rape in this country, we have a culture of fear. Rapists and paedophiles in every bush. Every man a potential attacker, waiting for the opportunity. Every woman and child a victim who needs to be hidden away.

    Every piece of language or art or anything is scrutinised by fearmongers to ensure it reverb the 'fear rape' message.

    Rape is bad. But it isn't everywhere everyday, the vast,vast majority of people are not rapists, and most people won't be victims of rape. That's not to diminish the experience of those who have been through it, but rather that we should not and indeed, cannot, if we want to keep our minds, obsess over rape and place women and children in an eternal state of victimhood and fear.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    This thread is a little off topic now I think.

    Let it evolve! P&D has been as dead as my dick of late. :D
    I am always a little dismayed at how much of a big deal people make about these bits here or there about jokes or whatever relating to rape.

    We don't have a culture of rape in this country, we have a culture of fear. Rapists and paedophiles in every bush. Every man a potential attacker, waiting for the opportunity. Every woman and child a victim who needs to be hidden away.

    Every piece of language or art or anything is scrutinised by fearmongers to ensure it reverb the 'fear rape' message.

    Rape is bad. But it isn't everywhere everyday, the vast,vast majority of people are not rapists, and most people won't be victims of rape. That's not to diminish the experience of those who have been through it, but rather that we should not and indeed, cannot, if we want to keep our minds, obsess over rape and place women and children in an eternal state of victimhood and fear.

    Broadly agree.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    Are they? Really?

    The only place I've ever seen a rape joke is Sickipedia, hardly mainstream.

    I wish I could live in your world.

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote: »
    Actually, I was thinking of a facebook friends asking how many spiders they could kill before it was a genocide.

    How was shouting you're a jew funny for him?

    No idea. He was a bit of a prick though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What, presumably, you want to effect a change in is people's attitudes - in your cack-handed, misguidedly liberal way - not the way people express those attitudes. I want racists to use the word 'nigger'. I want shitty comedians to tell shitty rape jokes. Because this way I can identify who's a cunt and who isn't. And I wouldn't dream of patronising the victims of rape or racism by electing myself Sanitiser of Worlds.

    Yeah I don't know if it was aimed at me either but I think we are pretty much on the same page. I'm not advocating a ban on free speech but I reserve the right to judge someone as a moron if they tell a joke that I find offensive or distasteful.

    A few months ago on ye olde facebook I was treated to seeing a friend post 'jokes' on a Dead Babies Jokes page. Thanks Newsfeed. I began to follow it out of curiosity because he was getting a huge backlash from parents that had seen the page and gone to it to show their disapproval and tell the posters how sick they all are. Fortunately for him the parents responding couldn't spell and so of course he took the easy route by pointing out every spelling or grammatical error as did his bumlicker group of friends. This is a guy who is a self proclaimed local comedien and takes pleasure in misappropriating the pathos of Bill Hicks for something much more subversive and blatent.

    Controversial for controversial sake gets boring very, very fast.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah I don't know if it was aimed at me either but I think we are pretty much on the same page.

    It wasn't aimed at you. It wasn't aimed at anyone really. There was just a growing feeling that the thread was egging itself on while edging toward some ridiculous faux-liberal notions.
    I'm not advocating a ban on free speech but I reserve the right to judge someone as a moron if they tell a joke that I find offensive or distasteful.

    We're in complete agreement here. Though I think we're both in danger of having the 'platitudinous' label applied to us. :)
    Controversial for controversial sake gets boring very, very fast.

    And this is why, for me, Frankie Boyle suffers from the law of diminishing returns.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Exactly. In a lot of ways having more freedom of speech allows us to identify the morons and the lunatics a lot more easily. If someone's happy to tell nasty jokes to all and sundry that identifies them as an idiot and means I never have to speak with them again. It's the same way anyone who talks of "banter" is basically saying "I am an enormous bellend".

    I don't actually mind stuff like sikipedia and bad taste jokes on Twitter, they do what they say on the tin. Don't like it, don't read it (they're all blocked on my twitter account). Stuff like the word "frape" is a bit more difficult; I think the humour there is that it isn't at all like rape, that rape is shocking and someone saying "I smell of poo" on a facebook wall really isn't. But it is unfortunate that it is so widely used now.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    This thread is a little off topic now I think.

    I am always a little dismayed at how much of a big deal people make about these bits here or there about jokes or whatever relating to rape.

    We don't have a culture of rape in this country, we have a culture of fear. Rapists and paedophiles in every bush. Every man a potential attacker, waiting for the opportunity. Every woman and child a victim who needs to be hidden away.

    Every piece of language or art or anything is scrutinised by fearmongers to ensure it reverb the 'fear rape' message.

    Rape is bad. But it isn't everywhere everyday, the vast,vast majority of people are not rapists, and most people won't be victims of rape. That's not to diminish the experience of those who have been through it, but rather that we should not and indeed, cannot, if we want to keep our minds, obsess over rape and place women and children in an eternal state of victimhood and fear.

    1 in 3 women experience some type of sexual violence or sexual abuse. That is a massive number. Of my friends, loads of us have been raped and sexually abused. People just don't talk about there own experiences that much. I deliberately am open now about my experiences and find that a lot of my friends have then confideded in me as they knew I'd understand.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Randomgirl wrote: »
    1 in 3 women experience some type of sexual violence or sexual abuse.

    If that's a factual statistic, it'd be interesting to do some back of the fag packet statistics to work out what percentage of the male population has likely committed an act of sexual violence and/or abuse.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    I wish I could live in your world.

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


    Most people do.

    Seriously though, I don't surround myself with people who tell rape jokes, so in that respect I don't hear any rape jokes.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If that's a factual statistic, it'd be interesting to do some back of the fag packet statistics to work out what percentage of the male population has likely committed an act of sexual violence and/or abuse.

    Well it's the statistic according to aftersilence.org . I have a mug with it on. I imagine that if one is the type of person who likes abusing people they would do it to lots of different people not just one so it's probably relatively few pople responsible for the sexual violation of a large number of people.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Woop woop it's the sound of da joke police!

    I tell racist jokes to my black, Indian and mixed race friends. We laugh. I wouldn't tell a racist joke around someone I didn't know, even if it was the best racist joke I knew, because I don't want people to think I'm racist. Because I'm not.

    The same arguments should be advanced against people who want to the moral arbiters of funny as to those who want to be the moral arbiters of language in general: you're missing the point entirely and what makes you think you'd be qualified to police what I can hear even if you weren't so off the mark? What, presumably, you want to effect a change in is people's attitudes - in your cack-handed, misguidedly liberal way - not the way people express those attitudes. I want racists to use the word 'nigger'. I want shitty comedians to tell shitty rape jokes. Because this way I can identify who's a cunt and who isn't. And I wouldn't dream of patronising the victims of rape or racism by electing myself Sanitiser of Worlds.

    I just nominated this as POTW! Spot on.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But he always gets POTW. It isn't fairrrrrrr
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    This thread is a little off topic now I think.

    tI does underline the basic issue about the subject of rape generally. We easily lose focus on what is acceptable and most will agree that rape is quite simply wrong. Then we divide ourselves by getting into semantics about what constitutes "funny" or "acceptable language" forgetting that it's entirely subjective and you cannot force others to agree with you.

    The act, whether people will make jokes about it or use the word to describe hacking a FB account, the act of rape is a crime. It, has been and will continue to be. The only thing that comments like the OP (and another) in this thread do is to provide a defence or justification for one of the most heinous crimes it's possible to commit.

    There is no excuse. There is no justification. Rape is rape is rape.

    I am always a little dismayed at how much of a big deal people make about these bits here or there about jokes or whatever relating to rape.

    We don't have a culture of rape in this country, we have a culture of fear. Rapists and paedophiles in every bush. Every man a potential attacker, waiting for the opportunity. Every woman and child a victim who needs to be hidden away.

    Every piece of language or art or anything is scrutinised by fearmongers to ensure it reverb the 'fear rape' message.

    Rape is bad. But it isn't everywhere everyday, the vast,vast majority of people are not rapists, and most people won't be victims of rape. That's not to diminish the experience of those who have been through it, but rather that we should not and indeed, cannot, if we want to keep our minds, obsess over rape and place women and children in an eternal state of victimhood and fear.[/QUOTE]
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But he always gets POTW. It isn't fairrrrrrr

    Hey, you're just about to become a Mummy. This is part of your training. No longer will you be considered funny or able to make a cohesive valued point. Get used to it :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Randomgirl wrote: »
    1 in 3 women experience some type of sexual violence or sexual abuse. That is a massive number. Of my friends, loads of us have been raped and sexually abused. People just don't talk about there own experiences that much. I deliberately am open now about my experiences and find that a lot of my friends have then confideded in me as they knew I'd understand.

    There are a lot of big numbers out there lets be honest. I think whilst statistics have their place they certainly have to be balanced against a 'norm' so you can compare them. If we stacked up percentage of victims in their lifetime from a person-to-person crime:

    Crime | Men | Women
    battery
    assault
    abh
    gbh
    murder
    sexual assault
    rape
    robbery
    agr. robbery
    etc...

    Then we could actually consider whats going on in context. We could further break it down longitudinally which would be insightful. Is the frequency of rape and sexual violence getting worse or better, vs other person-to-person crimes? And whilst rape isn't perfectly comparable with any other crime (no two crimes are the same after all), it's the best comparison we have.

    My statement 'most people won't be victims of rape' is still even by your statistic (which is reported by a support / help site, rather than necessarily a peer-reviewed journal unless its secondary citing) - accurate. We are now grouping sexual assault with rape as well. Again, these are very bad things, but I feel that it's just more fuel for the paranoia-machine.

    Just to clarify I have the utmost sympathy for victims of sexual violence and would never seek to diminish their suffering in any way - I am just talking frankly in this thread specifically because it's a politics and debate thread.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hey, you're just about to become a Mummy. This is part of your training. No longer will you be considered funny or able to make a cohesive valued point. Get used to it :p

    lol
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