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'Is it the girls fault for wearing a short skirt'

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote: »
    That's just retarded. It's in fact like the muslim way of viewing the world. Women are covered so men don't have to control themselves. What complete horseshit.

    Furthermore, women are very visual too, my girlfriend damn near broke her neck trying to look at my arse and boobs at the same time the other nice.

    It's not retarded, your not reading everything and just making assumptions. I said "Men are very visual and in turn when they are bombarded with women wearing skimpy/sexy clothing, they are more inclined to 'want' more from their significant other. In lamens terms - they get turned on. So yes, I think women wearing skimpy clothing increases the percentage of men that cheat."

    I didn't say you see ONE pretty woman and instantly trash your relationship lol. In todays society it's the norm for women to dress 'sexy', so men are constantly stimulated which 'could' increase their desire and in turn make them more likely to cheat.

    geez.. quit taking what I said out of context. :banghead:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think we did take it out of context.

    Seeing pretty girls in the street does not make men cheat. It doesn't matter if it is one pretty girl, or ten, or a thousand, it has no effect.

    I've spent five years working with attractive young women in a university and I can safely say I've not slept with any of them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think we did take it out of context.

    Seeing pretty girls in the street does not make men cheat. It doesn't matter if it is one pretty girl, or ten, or a thousand, it has no effect.

    I've spent five years working with attractive young women in a university and I can safely say I've not slept with any of them.

    good god :banghead: I said it 'could' increase the likely hood of cheating. I didn't say every guy that sees a pretty woman cheats lol.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I still don't quite understand the point you are trying to make. Do you think if women dressed 'less sexy' there would really be a decrease in men cheating on their partners?

    What you find sexy (in this case it seems clear that short skirts are your thing) another bloke may find unattractive. A man could be completely bowled over by a woman in a trouser suit whilst another could get hot under the coller when he sees a woman wearing a cocktail dress.

    I also think that you are being quite demeaning towards your own gender. There is an entire host of reasons why someone may cheat on their partner and finding someone sexually attractive definitely plays its part but to suggest that if women somehow looked less alluring that there would be less cases of infidelity seems pretty pointless and limited to me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JoeLeeFTW wrote: »
    good god :banghead: I said it 'could' increase the likely hood of cheating. I didn't say every guy that sees a pretty woman cheats lol.

    Well actually you, er, did. Or at least you said that all men who see a hot girl get an enormous boner and feel the need to stick it in her, like a hyperactive toddler with a peanut butter sandwich and an xBox.

    Which is of course, utterly stupid.

    Almost as stupid as trying to claim that there is one type of sexy clothing. Short skirts do little for me, but give me baggy jeans and a fitted hoodie...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I still don't quite understand the point you are trying to make. Do you think if women dressed 'less sexy' there would really be a decrease in men cheating on their partners?

    Yes, naturally. There would be less temptation.

    What you find sexy (in this case it seems clear that short skirts are your thing) another bloke may find unattractive. A man could be completely bowled over by a woman in a trouser suit whilst another could get hot under the coller when he sees a woman wearing a cocktail dress.

    I see the point your trying to make but it's pretty clear that overwhelmingly more men find women in trouser suits less attractive than women in mini skirts.

    I also think that you are being quite demeaning towards your own gender.

    How? By pointing out the obvious? Men are going to be more inclined to cheat if they are constantly around 'sexy' women. I didn't say they WOULD cheat, I'm just saying they would be more inclined to do so. Geez, just compare the way women dressed 20, 30 or 50 years ago compared to today. Now compare the divorce rate lol.

    There is an entire host of reasons why someone may cheat on their partner

    I agree completely. I'm just pointing out one of hundreds of thousands and getting roasted for it. :p

    and finding someone sexually attractive definitely plays its part

    right, that's what I'm saying!

    but to suggest that if women somehow looked less alluring that there would be less cases of infidelity seems pretty pointless and limited to me.

    What? You just said it plays it's part. lol :banghead:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well actually you, er, did. Or at least you said that all men who see a hot girl get an enormous boner and feel the need to stick it in her, like a hyperactive toddler with a peanut butter sandwich and an xBox.

    hahaha
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    If society shames men so much, then why are rape jokes, which shame the victim-survivor so prevalent in mainstream comedy?

    Do you believe it's possible to find a rape joke funny and to still find rape abhorrent?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JoeLeeFTW wrote: »
    Re-read what I posted. I said men are not equal to women. Men are very visual and in turn when they are bombarded with women wearing skimpy/sexy clothing, they are more inclined to 'want' more from their significant other. In lamens terms - they get turned on. So yes, I think women wearing skimpy clothing increases the percentage of men that cheat.

    So you're effectively blaming women for dressing 'sexily' for increasing the numbers of men cheating? I got it right the first time. And you seem to have a massive bone to pick with women for dressing sexy. And also, peoples personal definitions of 'sexy' differ. So I don't think you can make such sweeping generalisations.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Do you believe it's possible to find a rape joke funny and to still find rape abhorrent?

    Is this questioning my personal view, or is it more rhetorical?

    I think that people who find rape and child abuse jokes funny are likely lucky enough not to have been scarred by those kind of events and always ignorant enough to help perpetuate an aspect if culture which makes it more difficult to help survivors of rape to feel comfortable and come to terms with their ordeal.

    I cannot speak of having survived rape mind... Child abuse, sexual assault and homophobia; hearing people make light of these issues and joking about them have at times, made recovery harder.

    It is beyond me why anybody who has ever loved a woman as a friend, lover or family member could ever laugh at a scenario like that... but then I reckon a part of the rape joke in (lazy) comedy is that people maybe laugh out of discomfort?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Do you believe it's possible to find a rape joke funny and to still find rape abhorrent?

    I do.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think you're being a bit too serious about it all, to tell you the truth. I think it is possible- and, indeed, healthy- to find humour in most situations. In many cases with so-called "rape jokes" the idea that anyone would find the idea acceptable is what is being lampooned. It depends on the joke as often as not; joking about a hypothetical act is one thing, making a specific person the target of a joke is quite another.

    Example: "nine out of ten people enjoyed a gang rape" is humourous, whether you find it funny is about taste. But "wouldn't it be funny if [heckler] was gangraped" is not humourous.

    As for "making recovery harder", that is incredibly individualistic. I know people who found the song "Me and a Gun" by Tori Amos to be far harder to listen to and deal with than a one-liner about rape, despite the song being written about Amos' own experience of rape and despite Amos doing so much work for the survivors of rape.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I dare anyone (now it's been brought up) to not feel moved and confused by the song. But "what has 8 legs and scares little girls" is not nearly as intense.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    Shyboy... If society shames men so much, then why are rape jokes, which shame the victim-survivor so prevalent in mainstream comedy?

    Because it's offensive and comedy loves to be offensive? We have hundreds of dead baby jokes, that doesn't mean we are a society of baby killers.
    In school, we were taught about equality, sure (and if you can rape somebody, you are a potential rapist to an individual capable of being raped, the same as if you have a gun and can use it, you have the potential to shoot somebody), but that isn't nowt to do with shame? I'd teach my kids not to rape, not to be bigoted ect because these attitudes exist in society.

    This was an entirely different sort of class if I'm honest. All boys were taken out of class to a special assembly. We were given a talk, segregated, first about what constituted rape and sexual assault, and secondly that it was wrong regardless if we wanted to or not. It was very much the tone that was shaming. I think it would be hard for people to understand what I mean perhaps unless they were told to go to a special assembly when they were 14 to be told not to rape girls.

    Speaking to other guys I know my school wasn't the only one that did this.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    It is beyond me why anybody who has ever loved a woman as a friend, lover or family member could ever laugh at a scenario like that... but then I reckon a part of the rape joke in (lazy) comedy is that people maybe laugh out of discomfort?

    Have you heard the term epater les beurgeoise? It's the deliberate use of shocking topics in comedy. Rape is horrible, but rape is also a thing and people will talk, write stories, sing, even write comedy about almost all things. It's part of the human experience. As Arctic says there is something in divorcing the horrible act from the 'human conversation' that surrounds the act.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JoeLeeFTW- If you think a short skirt is the only thing that makes a woman 'sexy' then you are going to be a very lonely boy indeed. Good luck on the campaign to banish the mini skirt. The clothing industry won't know what's gonna hit them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JoeLeeFTW- If you think a short skirt is the only thing that makes a woman 'sexy' then you are going to be a very lonely boy indeed. Good luck on the campaign to banish the mini skirt. The clothing industry won't know what's gonna hit them.

    What in the world are you talking about? I never said that lol. I was talking about dressing 'sexy' in general. I'm not against sexy clothes either. That's something you guys are conjuring up in your own little head. I was really just trying to point out the trend in society. More and more sexy clothes blah blah blah... cheating, divorce on the rise, etc etc etc. I didn't really think it was 'that' debatable of a topic. sheeshhh.

    that's it, nothing more, nothing less. lol
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So would people who think "rape is just comedy" crack jokes abouy rape in front of a survivor?

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Firstly. Rape is not just comedy.

    Secondly, I would if the survivor was ok about it. Frankly I consider it on the same level as making "your mum" jokes in front of me. It's about the person, not the event.

    Incidentally, I just made a rape joke without thinking about it. My housemate is out later than usual, asked if she was ok, she said "yes, in london body snatching, back at 8ish". I said "Saw your car, but no you, assumed you were being raped in a carpark, so thought I'd check in". Her reply "Aww aren't you sweet!". There's nothing wrong with me, or her, or my mates that laugh at rape jokes, or your mum jokes for that matter. There's a time and a place, yeah, but it doesn't endorse the behaviour.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JoeLeeFTW wrote: »
    What in the world are you talking about? I never said that lol. I was talking about dressing 'sexy' in general. I'm not against sexy clothes either. That's something you guys are conjuring up in your own little head. I was really just trying to point out the trend in society. More and more sexy clothes blah blah blah... cheating, divorce on the rise, etc etc etc. I didn't really think it was 'that' debatable of a topic. sheeshhh.

    that's it, nothing more, nothing less. lol

    You are this argument.
    PiratesVsTemp.png
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think you're being a bit too serious about it all, to tell you the truth. I think it is possible- and, indeed, healthy- to find humour in most situations. In many cases with so-called "rape jokes" the idea that anyone would find the idea acceptable is what is being lampooned. It depends on the joke as often as not; joking about a hypothetical act is one thing, making a specific person the target of a joke is quite another.

    Example: "nine out of ten people enjoyed a gang rape" is humourous, whether you find it funny is about taste. But "wouldn't it be funny if [heckler] was gangraped" is not humourous.

    As for "making recovery harder", that is incredibly individualistic. I know people who found the song "Me and a Gun" by Tori Amos to be far harder to listen to and deal with than a one-liner about rape, despite the song being written about Amos' own experience of rape and despite Amos doing so much work for the survivors of rape.

    Tori Amos was singing about her experiences. Many rape jokes come from men who are not working with survivors.... just saying. The intention is different. We live in a society where women are brought up to fear rape and are often encouraged to behave in ways to avoid it. There is still an amount of stigma (as has been challenged on this thread) about being raped. If rape were a rare and bizarre occurrence, perhaps the idea that some people find it acceptable is more likely be amusing because it would be rare and we would think "who the hell thinks like that?!"...

    Only it's not rare. It's something which happens every day... In some countries, a woman is more likely to be raped than to get educated. That's incredibly fucked up. I'm not saying if you laugh at rape, you're an evil bastard... But I do think that people like Frankie Boyle are cheap, lazy and vile in their choice of comedy.

    I don't believe in censorship, but I do believe that things like rape aren't ever funny. That's just my own view.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JoeLeeFTW wrote: »
    What in the world are you talking about? I never said that lol. I was talking about dressing 'sexy' in general. I'm not against sexy clothes either. That's something you guys are conjuring up in your own little head. I was really just trying to point out the trend in society. More and more sexy clothes blah blah blah... cheating, divorce on the rise, etc etc etc. I didn't really think it was 'that' debatable of a topic. sheeshhh.

    that's it, nothing more, nothing less. lol

    What exactly is dressing sexy 'in general'? (lol)

    and just for your information:

    1920s

    1920s.gif



    1950s

    1950s.jpg


    It may just be that us jezabels have always been 'generally sexy' and tempting happily married men from their wives for decades. Poor blokes.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote: »
    Firstly. Rape is not just comedy.
    Sorry, I meant "rape jokes"... Not all rape.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think most importantly that all jokes are meant to be comedy, but not everything is funny, and not everything is fair. I sure as hell wouldn't have said what I said to my housemate to a friend who had actually been raped, even if she (or he I guess) were ok with more general rape jokes. Like all comedy, it's more personal than we as a society like to think comedy should be. Some things are very funny, some things are not very funny, but only as far as I'm concerned. Someone else will have different catagories. Its where they overlap that main-stream happens. And in fairness to Jimmy Carr, he does warn people that he's a cunt.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Your right clementine, I'm wrong. Women in no way dress more risque now than they did 50 years ago.

    You win :thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JoeLeeFTW wrote: »
    Your right clementine, I'm wrong. Women in no way dress more risque now than they did 50 years ago.

    You win :thumb:

    No they don't. It's attitudes and perceptions that have changed. 150 years ago a lady showing her ankle was risque, then when skirts went above the knee it was shocking, nowadays people don't bat an eyelid at exposed knees and ankles.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have cracked jokes about most things in the past, humour is part of life. I don't think anything should be taboo.

    I wouldn't go out of my way to crack jokes in front of a vulnerable audience but there comes a point when- harsh as it sounds- if someone gets upset and offended that's their problem not mine. If you go to a Frankie Boyle gig you lose the right to wail when he's offensive.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Some of it obviously comes down to personal taste. I'm not impressed with comediens that like to target and poke fun at the vulnerable in society. I don't find it clever or funny to say 'Rape isn't rape if you shout surprise before you do it'. It's just a poor attempt at an easy laugh.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Some of it obviously comes down to personal taste. I'm not impressed with comediens that like to target and poke fun at the vulnerable in society. I don't find it clever or funny to say 'Rape isn't rape if you shout surprise before you do it'. It's just a poor attempt at an easy laugh.

    This is how I feel...

    Nobody is saying people can't talk about rape, but the vast majority of jokes make the scenario of rape out to be funny when it isn't and never will be. I think that this reflects upon society's attitudes towards the (mostly female) people who experience being raped. There have been a few people who may have made comedy out of rape culture, or other stereotyping, but it's different to what Frankie Boyle said about that paralympian (forgot her name) or Daniel Tosh. It undermines the suffering of people.

    AR, of course, don't go to a gig with a sexist 'comedian' like FB, but people tell rape jokes quite casually... Though this thread has been derailed. Eep.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    WHY ARE YOU BEING SO THICK rape happens because some men are shit and sick and that is it. sexy clothes is a post rape excuse not a pre rape reason. what you're saying is that if i get raped in jeans and a jumper i'm a victim but if i get raped in short shorts then it is, at least a little bit, my fault like i fucking went and GOT MYSELF RAPED and that's a fucking shit thing to say because that's basically what you're saying so stop trying to justify rape.
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