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Do you think that rape is only a recent thing then?
People make sick jokes on basically everything going. Rape/racist/sexist jokes are pretty main stream now, but I've also seen sick jokes about peadophilia, Dale Cregan, April Jones, Maddie McCann, James Bulger, etc etc. Unfortunately it's the taboo factor that makes these jokes all the more appealing. People find these jokes so funny because they're so shocking and controversial.
I think people just need to use their common sense about when/where to say these jokes though. I.E. you don't start saying racist jokes (about black people) around black people. You don't say rape jokes around victims, etc.
OP (and the people who agreed with his premise): People have said my points already but at least if I ever get raped wearing a tracksuit I have your approval that it wasn't my fault for "tempting" the rapist. Whatever would I have done without it?
If someone says a racist joke why is there an assumption that because I'm white and British that I'm not going to be offended by it? Saying a racist joke doesn't suddenly become okay when a black person isn't around.
Same for jokes about rape. How are you going to know that the person you are telling it to wasn't sexually assaulted or raped?
I think I phrased that wrong. I mean, if you're around your close mates who you're most likely to know everything about. Obviously only a dickhead or selfish person will go out and make crude jokes to absolute strangers.
BTW I confess to making racist jokes too, to my Asian friend, she finds it funny and makes them herself, so nobody gets hurt. Obviously I wouldn't go up to random Asian people (or people in general for that matter) and start making those jokes because I know I might offend somebody and risk getting battered or at least very frowned upon for it.
Are they? Really?
The only place I've ever seen a rape joke is Sickipedia, hardly mainstream.
Yeah a haaaalarious ex boyfriend thought it was witty to shout 'you're a jew!!' at his friends and me. It's just stupid humour
How was shouting you're a jew funny for him?
I tell racist jokes to my black, Indian and mixed race friends. We laugh. I wouldn't tell a racist joke around someone I didn't know, even if it was the best racist joke I knew, because I don't want people to think I'm racist. Because I'm not.
The same arguments should be advanced against people who want to be the moral arbiters of funny as to those who want to be the moral arbiters of language in general: you're missing the point entirely and what makes you think you'd be qualified to police what I can hear even if you weren't so off the mark? What, presumably, you want to effect a change in is people's attitudes - in your cack-handed, misguidedly liberal way - not the way people express those attitudes. I want racists to use the word 'nigger'. I want shitty comedians to tell shitty rape jokes. Because this way I can identify who's a cunt and who isn't. And I wouldn't dream of patronising the victims of rape or racism by electing myself Sanitiser of Worlds.
No, genuine curiosity, it might be funny. I like funny.
I am always a little dismayed at how much of a big deal people make about these bits here or there about jokes or whatever relating to rape.
We don't have a culture of rape in this country, we have a culture of fear. Rapists and paedophiles in every bush. Every man a potential attacker, waiting for the opportunity. Every woman and child a victim who needs to be hidden away.
Every piece of language or art or anything is scrutinised by fearmongers to ensure it reverb the 'fear rape' message.
Rape is bad. But it isn't everywhere everyday, the vast,vast majority of people are not rapists, and most people won't be victims of rape. That's not to diminish the experience of those who have been through it, but rather that we should not and indeed, cannot, if we want to keep our minds, obsess over rape and place women and children in an eternal state of victimhood and fear.
Let it evolve! P&D has been as dead as my dick of late.
Broadly agree.
I wish I could live in your world.
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No idea. He was a bit of a prick though.
Yeah I don't know if it was aimed at me either but I think we are pretty much on the same page. I'm not advocating a ban on free speech but I reserve the right to judge someone as a moron if they tell a joke that I find offensive or distasteful.
A few months ago on ye olde facebook I was treated to seeing a friend post 'jokes' on a Dead Babies Jokes page. Thanks Newsfeed. I began to follow it out of curiosity because he was getting a huge backlash from parents that had seen the page and gone to it to show their disapproval and tell the posters how sick they all are. Fortunately for him the parents responding couldn't spell and so of course he took the easy route by pointing out every spelling or grammatical error as did his bumlicker group of friends. This is a guy who is a self proclaimed local comedien and takes pleasure in misappropriating the pathos of Bill Hicks for something much more subversive and blatent.
Controversial for controversial sake gets boring very, very fast.
It wasn't aimed at you. It wasn't aimed at anyone really. There was just a growing feeling that the thread was egging itself on while edging toward some ridiculous faux-liberal notions.
We're in complete agreement here. Though I think we're both in danger of having the 'platitudinous' label applied to us.
And this is why, for me, Frankie Boyle suffers from the law of diminishing returns.
I don't actually mind stuff like sikipedia and bad taste jokes on Twitter, they do what they say on the tin. Don't like it, don't read it (they're all blocked on my twitter account). Stuff like the word "frape" is a bit more difficult; I think the humour there is that it isn't at all like rape, that rape is shocking and someone saying "I smell of poo" on a facebook wall really isn't. But it is unfortunate that it is so widely used now.
1 in 3 women experience some type of sexual violence or sexual abuse. That is a massive number. Of my friends, loads of us have been raped and sexually abused. People just don't talk about there own experiences that much. I deliberately am open now about my experiences and find that a lot of my friends have then confideded in me as they knew I'd understand.
If that's a factual statistic, it'd be interesting to do some back of the fag packet statistics to work out what percentage of the male population has likely committed an act of sexual violence and/or abuse.
Most people do.
Seriously though, I don't surround myself with people who tell rape jokes, so in that respect I don't hear any rape jokes.
Well it's the statistic according to aftersilence.org . I have a mug with it on. I imagine that if one is the type of person who likes abusing people they would do it to lots of different people not just one so it's probably relatively few pople responsible for the sexual violation of a large number of people.
I just nominated this as POTW! Spot on.
tI does underline the basic issue about the subject of rape generally. We easily lose focus on what is acceptable and most will agree that rape is quite simply wrong. Then we divide ourselves by getting into semantics about what constitutes "funny" or "acceptable language" forgetting that it's entirely subjective and you cannot force others to agree with you.
The act, whether people will make jokes about it or use the word to describe hacking a FB account, the act of rape is a crime. It, has been and will continue to be. The only thing that comments like the OP (and another) in this thread do is to provide a defence or justification for one of the most heinous crimes it's possible to commit.
There is no excuse. There is no justification. Rape is rape is rape.
I am always a little dismayed at how much of a big deal people make about these bits here or there about jokes or whatever relating to rape.
We don't have a culture of rape in this country, we have a culture of fear. Rapists and paedophiles in every bush. Every man a potential attacker, waiting for the opportunity. Every woman and child a victim who needs to be hidden away.
Every piece of language or art or anything is scrutinised by fearmongers to ensure it reverb the 'fear rape' message.
Rape is bad. But it isn't everywhere everyday, the vast,vast majority of people are not rapists, and most people won't be victims of rape. That's not to diminish the experience of those who have been through it, but rather that we should not and indeed, cannot, if we want to keep our minds, obsess over rape and place women and children in an eternal state of victimhood and fear.[/QUOTE]
Hey, you're just about to become a Mummy. This is part of your training. No longer will you be considered funny or able to make a cohesive valued point. Get used to it
There are a lot of big numbers out there lets be honest. I think whilst statistics have their place they certainly have to be balanced against a 'norm' so you can compare them. If we stacked up percentage of victims in their lifetime from a person-to-person crime:
Crime | Men | Women
battery
assault
abh
gbh
murder
sexual assault
rape
robbery
agr. robbery
etc...
Then we could actually consider whats going on in context. We could further break it down longitudinally which would be insightful. Is the frequency of rape and sexual violence getting worse or better, vs other person-to-person crimes? And whilst rape isn't perfectly comparable with any other crime (no two crimes are the same after all), it's the best comparison we have.
My statement 'most people won't be victims of rape' is still even by your statistic (which is reported by a support / help site, rather than necessarily a peer-reviewed journal unless its secondary citing) - accurate. We are now grouping sexual assault with rape as well. Again, these are very bad things, but I feel that it's just more fuel for the paranoia-machine.
Just to clarify I have the utmost sympathy for victims of sexual violence and would never seek to diminish their suffering in any way - I am just talking frankly in this thread specifically because it's a politics and debate thread.
lol