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The concept of swearing is absurd

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
Hi all,

Since being literate, I've wondered why a combination of letters, vocalised or written - could be considered offensive, wrong - or any derivative of that. It's a word, in reality - it's subjective - further it's no body's right to metaphorically gag anyone no matter how they choose to express their thoughts and most importantly feelings.

Because that's what swearing ultimately is in it's social context. It's an emotive expression. Why is that so wrong, and who decides what is objectively offensive an what it not. In my opinion, any and all words called "swear words" are called so from the archaic fashioned authoritarian dictatorship which our society came from. Observed by the perpetually compliant who accept that a word is "rude" (How prudish does that sound?). It's neither "wrong", "offensive" or unreasonable to utter a word you deem appropriate.

Anyone agree with me here?
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I do agree yes but you would would still be upset and offended if somebody called you ever swear word under the sun.

    For me its not the actual words themselves but the context/reason theyre being used, eg. me n my sister can regularly call each other 'bitch' and it not be a problem as we know its in jest but if somebody used it against me i'd be pretty upset.

    Plus, you have to take into account somebody elses subjective view of the word. Just because to you its just a word and not unreasonable to use words as you see fit, to others it may be offensive to just here them. Of course you dont have to stick by this but its called being a decent guy.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Lexi99 wrote: »
    I do agree yes but you would would still be upset and offended if somebody called you ever swear word under the sun.

    For me its not the actual words themselves but the context/reason theyre being used, eg. me n my sister can regularly call each other 'bitch' and it not be a problem as we know its in jest but if somebody used it against me i'd be pretty upset.

    Plus, you have to take into account somebody elses subjective view of the word. Just because to you its just a word and not unreasonable to use words as you see fit, to others it may be offensive to just here them. Of course you dont have to stick by this but its called being a decent guy.

    Granted, I swear very rarely - I just don't understand the whole notion.

    And why just being a decent guy? I've encountered plenty of "Foulmouthed women" in my menial time. Further, are you insinuating I am not "decent", because by relative exhibits - really, I am.

    What pisses me off more than anything, and ultimately the trigger of this post, is censorship. It's just a ridiculous idea, it has no real purpose other than bureaucratically subverting responsibility and whilst simotaniously ignighting the inevitably satisfied curiosity of a natural human mind.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not i'm not saying your not, it was just an example. I mean those who will swear like anything even if they know somebody isnt comfortable with it.

    Also, censorship is mainly for kids, you may not have a problem with it but you wouldnt want your 5 year old hearing some of the stuff that comes out of peoples mouths
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Lexi99 wrote: »

    Also, censorship is mainly for kids, you may not have a problem with it but you wouldnt want your 5 year old hearing some of the stuff that comes out of peoples mouths

    Ah but you see, Do I want to shelter my child from a thunderstorm only to be encountered by the accumulated tsunami when they leave that little shanty I built them? I'd rather my child was prepared for the world that face them, than for them to be overwhelmed and unprepared. Kids understand far more than they're given credit for, I know I did.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ah but you see, Do I want to shelter my child from a thunderstorm only to be encountered by the accumulated tsunami when they leave that little shanty I built them? I'd rather my child was prepared for the world that face them, than for them to be overwhelmed and unprepared. Kids understand far more than they're given credit for, I know I did.

    Well that would be your decision, but i still wouldnt want a tirade of swear words round my kids no matter how i decided to raise them or if they even understood them. Like you said these things are subjective and with anything subjective you have to respect other peoples views
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Lexi99 wrote: »
    Well that would be your decision, but i still wouldnt want a tirade of swear words round my kids no matter how i decided to raise them or if they even understood them. Like you said these things are subjective and with anything subjective you have to respect other peoples views

    I wouldn't triade swear words around my hypothetical children :no:. I imagine we all bring our children up in our own ideal, and I can surely say my ideal does not include that.

    You misunderstand, it's not a case of forceing the real world upon children. We have mass-media and marketing for that :rolleyes:, probably more dangerous than you hold dearest on your "blacklist". It's more adressing the issues when they come up. Instead of pretending such elemements of the world dont exist, which we do - or invoke sheer fear in the face of it. It's more a case of easeing in an continuous learning process from an early age. I think the reason so many are "foul mouthed" theese days is because their parents said "DONT YOU SAY THAT AGAIN", maybe they even beat ("slaped") them back then, some now - and left it at that. That's no solution, infact, that's the problem.

    Word's are words, I'd tell my children the significance of words, and how they may effect others - But I wouldn't ce**sor them. Sometimes a word means more than anything else, as with everything the issue need to be adressed as they come, natrually - not artificially and not all at once. That is the plight of my, and probably a few generations before mine.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I also agree but yeah, it's more about the meaning meant behind the word.
    You could say the same about racist terms such as 'Ni**er'...it's just a sound at the end of the day, but it's the history behind the word which makes it so offensive.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    pill 'ed wrote: »
    I also agree but yeah, it's more about the meaning meant behind the word.
    You could say the same about racist terms such as 'Ni**er'...it's just a sound at the end of the day, but it's the history behind the word which makes it so offensive.

    I wouldn't consider "ni**er" a "swear word", it's more an objective pejorative and has an exclusive, clear and directed context rooted in racial prejudice.

    Bit different from telling someone his actions render him a prick.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    yes but both carry plenty of weight. the n word definitely carries much MORE weight but the word 'prick' has been used for ages to insult. it isn't so much as the word in it's most basic form but the meaning that people attach to them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And so you consider the value of "offence"?

    A criminal would take offence being called scum, criminal etc.

    No matter what you and I think, it's offensive to he/she. Where do you draw the line, and why? How?

    Offence to me is a reality of life we all have to deal with in some context, there is no protection from it. Why should an expression be illeagal. We all herald freedom of speech and expression, but exclusively enforce it. Is that freedom? No.

    It's mob rule, It's the majority subdueing a minority, no matter how repugnant. Words and thoughts are distinct from actions. You probably should draw the line at actions abrasive to society (though many actions confuse me as to why they are Illegal as they have little effect on society, only infringe on liberty) but not the former, speech should be free and thoughts should be entitled to be both private and unhampered. Is our society built on ancient principles flying in the face of what we propose to stand for?

    Shame we're headed toward what can only be some universal, perhaps subverse totalitarian dictatorship, maybe in economic context, mabye ideologically - who can say.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    "Chocolate" is just a combination of letters, still makes me hungry.

    *edges out of thread*
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Its all about context. When I'm at work and having a conversation with someone, if they start swearing then fair enough, it's how they speak. If they start swearing AT me, or doing so in a threatening manner then they've gone too far, and the swear words take on a different meaning.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    SteelWool wrote: »
    "Chocolate" is just a combination of letters, still makes me hungry.

    *edges out of thread*

    I am OFFENDEDDDDZOR - for I have no access to chocolate. I sentence you to bigotry, you are now permenantly unempoyable and a generic little shit. More, Chocolate as an adjective is banned under the Crappini convention of this month as it may obscurely resemble a skin colour in context of the convention. Give me all your chocolate and GTFO :thumb: :shocking: :shocking: :shocking: :shocking:

    Seriously, people partake in that charade dutily? That's not racial equality, which I'm all for by default. Black, white, asian, anything are equally human as anyone else. To me it's not a factor. It's a non issue, so why does it rest so heavily for others?
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,243 Skive's The Limit
    There are wordsw for all sorts of things it's called language. That includes words we usd to offend or insult. They're very useful.
    Weekender Offender 
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Its partially the words, and partially the context in which they are used. Years ago someone who was happy would be referred to as gay, now it is used as a derogatory insult to things that bore people.

    Language is too often used to discriminate and seperate people, having respect for others in my view should be a moral standard, and peoples differences used as strengths, rather than tools to devide. It is too often that words are used to seperate, exlude and discriminate against people, or as an offensive measure.

    Thats why I dont like swear words.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    CBA to read everyones replies... so I dont know if anyone said this but, by going from what L-S has said there is no such thing as verbal bullying. Therefore all the victims of verbal abuse are not victims. If a word is just a word, than I can call you a wanker and you wont want to do anything about it because it is merly the letters W A N K E and R.
    Correct?
    Xx
    P.S not my views.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hi all,

    Since being literate, I've wondered why a combination of letters, vocalised or written - could be considered offensive, wrong - or any derivative of that. It's a word, in reality - it's subjective - further it's no body's right to metaphorically gag anyone no matter how they choose to express their thoughts and most importantly feelings.

    Because that's what swearing ultimately is in it's social context. It's an emotive expression. Why is that so wrong, and who decides what is objectively offensive an what it not. In my opinion, any and all words called "swear words" are called so from the archaic fashioned authoritarian dictatorship which our society came from. Observed by the perpetually compliant who accept that a word is "rude" (How prudish does that sound?). It's neither "wrong", "offensive" or unreasonable to utter a word you deem appropriate.

    Anyone agree with me here?

    It's not the words, its the meanings we attach to those words that are important. Imagine we had no words, and just communicated through expressions. And I made my hand into a fist and looked at you aggressively. You instinctively attach a negative and threatening meaning to that action, even if it's simply me contorting my hand and face.

    Meanings are important, and powerful! Words aren't by themselves, but they can have powerful meanings attached to them.
  • **helen****helen** Mod malarkist Posts: 9,235 Listening Ear
    Definitely one for P&D gonna move it now. :thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make here. I think swearing is a perfectly valid concept, and an extremely useful tool in this society of ours. As an example, there are some moments when one can be excused for stating obscenities in the car. Yesterday, I was heading off to Enniskillen and had to make a left turn. I was looking to see if anyone was coming on the road I had to turn onto when some prick in a Chelsea tractor who wanted to turn right decided to pull up next to me, completely blocking my view of any oncoming traffic. I could not help but say "You utter cunt". I took great pleasure from the fact the driver's passenger (most likely his wife) seemed to have developed the ability to lip read. She was not best pleased...

    I don't swear in front of everybody. I avoid doing it in front of my girlfriend's grandparents, (they are amongst those who find excessive swearing very offensive, as is their right) and I'd never swear in front of children. I think it has its time and place, but I don't go shouting expletives every five seconds.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make here. I think swearing is a perfectly valid concept, and an extremely useful tool in this society of ours. As an example, there are some moments when one can be excused for stating obscenities in the car. Yesterday, I was heading off to Enniskillen and had to make a left turn. I was looking to see if anyone was coming on the road I had to turn onto when some prick in a Chelsea tractor who wanted to turn right decided to pull up next to me, completely blocking my view of any oncoming traffic. I could not help but say "You utter cunt". I took great pleasure from the fact the driver's passenger (most likely his wife) seemed to have developed the ability to lip read. She was not best pleased...

    I don't swear in front of everybody. I avoid doing it in front of my girlfriend's grandparents, (they are amongst those who find excessive swearing very offensive, as is their right) and I'd never swear in front of children. I think it has its time and place, but I don't go shouting expletives every five seconds.

    This is a straw man argument http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man, previously adressed.

    I am not saying one should shout expeletives every 5 seconds and there is nothing in any of my posts to suggest that.

    Ultimately, this is a thread about censorship and it's arbitrary enforment upon combinations of letters that could mean anything. Yet you admit that so called "swear words" are both useful and serve an arbitrary function. At the same time you feel the innate need to leash yourself in situations you deem them both functional and necessary due to social context en-masse. It makes no sense.

    As said, it goes far further than "swearing", but more the default blocking of OBVIOUS information due to fickle, relative and honestly quite useless sensibilities. Swearing can include the epithet "information" as it carries an emotive meaning as well as a means of airing frustration, but obviously information can include a lot more.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    what the fuck?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This thread is fast descending down the shitter, and not in a good way...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ah crap!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Right, I've removed the personal insults and the responses to them. If the OP could bear in mind that having a debate about swearing doesn't suddenly change their registration agreement not to insult other users then that would be fan-fucking-tastic. If not, well, trolls don't stay around long.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    taking offence is part of life tbh

    in regards to sweawords in particular, i never got the thing with them tbh ie why they're so taboo

    best example of why they're stupid is the word 'frak' created for battlestar galactica tv show to get around 'fuck' not being allowed, they use it in exactly the same way yet it isn't censured, thus showing why fuck as a word is in no way different
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    best example of why they're stupid is the word 'frak' created for battlestar galactica tv show to get around 'fuck' not being allowed, they use it in exactly the same way yet it isn't censured, thus showing why fuck as a word is in no way different
    Your point is valid but I feel inclined to correct a small mistake. :p
    "Frak" wasn't used to avoid saying "fuck" but as an homage to the word "frack" of the old BSG series (1978), turned into a 4-letter word.
    The word "frack" on the other hand, was used as a way to avoid swearing but not as a replacement of any real swear word in particular.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Is it bad that I sometimes let out a little "frack" when I get pissed off with things :blush: ?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What makes me laugh most are the type of people who would look up swear words in a dictionary, then would be shocked if they found them. Frank Skinner does a brilliant sketch about someone who complained because one of those Babestation channels accidentally had a wardrobe malfunction and showed too much. You have to question the sort of person who sits through something like that waiting for something to be offended about. I think it often says more about their own mind than the people who made or watch whatever it is they're complaining about without shame.

    Anyway, here's Mrs. Doyle demonstrating what I mean.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree, I also find swearing useful.
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    MrG wrote: »
    Is it bad that I sometimes let out a little "frack" when I get pissed off with things :blush: ?
    I've completely replaced my usage of "fuck" with "frak", just cause I like it. It's got to the point where I hear someone saying "fuck" and it sounds strange.
    Although, with me mostly speaking in Greek and all, I don't use it so much.
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