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'Should have evolved' is what I think you're trying to say.
Anyway, we havn't. Evolution doesn't move that fast - hence why we still have forward facing eyes, teeth designed for coping with meat etc .
Your choice not to eat meat is a luxury provide by the modern world. There are still plenty of people around the world that do not have that luxury - it would be wise to remember that.
All living things die - I think that's something that escapes a few of you. Death is the only certain thing in life, it's nothing to be screamish about, and death is not cruel it's just part of every life, and has been since life began. Whether it be a natural death of old age or from some other predetor or from a human, what does it matter?
Earlier on a few of the veggies were complaining about why meat eaters are always so defensive. This thread show's why, rational people don't like being mislabled animal abusers and torturers.
It's perfectly natural to eat meat, and perfectly natural not to. And I don't generally care what others choices are. However I do take offence to the assertion that I encourage the mistreatment of animals. I don't. I just think I have a more realistic view on what life entails. It's not little bunny rabbits bouncing round green fields until they die happy of old age and slip away in their sleep thats for sure.
And we have evolved, just look around. Why didn't the cave men invent what you see around you, instead of leading a primitive huntergatherer lifestyle?
Also, although others are not able to partake in the luxury that is the vegetarian lifestyle, we can afford it, and that is why some people do it and others probably should.
Gx
:yes:
As Skive goes on to say too, being a meat eater certainly doesn't have to mean that you condone the mistreatment of animals. Calling someone an animal abuser is inevitably going to cause a reaction.
However, to a strict veggie it can seem that any instance of killing an animal, no matter how humane, is mistreatment. It depends on how you define things and everyone's entitled to their opinion.
Will be closing the thread if it derails again..
If we've evolved to the point of eating only vegetation how come we have a lack of enamel on our teeth and have incisors used for chewing meat? the fundamental question you HAVE NOT ANSWERED, no matter how many times its been asked. why because you CANT
We are physically designed to eat meat, yes that is true, and we have not yet evolved into a herbivorous species. But we do not have to use every 'function' we have been given. Vegetarians have incisors as well as you, but we choose not to use them. What I am saying is that our minds have evolved/grown up enough, and we have the resources to make a rational decision over whether to eat meat. My decision is not to, and your decision is to eat meat. Maybe there'll come a point when everyone realises that vegetarianism is better for the environment, better for animals, and cheaper, and accept that, incisors and all.
I hope you are satisfied with my answer.
Gx
Why do we have to cook meat then? If we were evolved to eat meat surely we would be able to/prefer to eat it raw?
This is an actual question by the way as I don't know the answer
Not really. You're confusing evolution with invention & choice.
You are not more 'evolved or grown up' because you don't eat meat. You just make a different choice, one your able to make because of society, invention and the modern world.
I regularly eat stuff I shoot or catch. Neither is bad for the enviorment or especially expensive. And do you really think it matters much to the bird whether I shoot it, or it gets eaten by something else - as happens in most cases? What is so 'cruel' about any of that?
The eating meat one and the veg one. For what ever reason you have for the path you choose, in this day and age no one really gives a fuck.
The "eating meat is abusing animals" bit made me want to pull my hair out. That has to be the most narrow minded statement I have ever heard and acctually has me lost for words.
I have nothing against vegatarians I'm sure there are some interesting reasons why you do it. But most meat eaters DO care how the animals are treated, I've seen some horrific conditions that animals live in but at the same time I've seen great ones. Just because we eat meat doesn't make us abusers.
Ok I think I'm done
Why don't you get off you fucking high horse and stop telling me that what I do because I am designed for it is wrong,
You have no god damn right to tell me I am wrong because I prefer a good old steak over your god-damn rabbit food, This is what pisses me off with Vegetarians, a lot are like you, Arrogant, Self righteous pricks. Our minds HAVE not grown up and evolved to become vegetarians, YOU may have. I have not and neither have the majority of the planet and guess what, THEY WILL NOT. We have a choice and we will eat meat, telling me that maybe the world will change and I am wrong and we'll notice how crewel we are is arrogant
I think this thread is a good example of why agriculture needs to be taught in schools.
Killing an animal for meat is not inherently inhumane. If people feel morally uncomfortable with that then that's absolutely fine, their choice, but it is their moral choice. It's not a moral absolute. Killing animals for pleasure is very different.
So are a lot of meat eaters - I don't think the two are particularly correlational. Making harsh statements like that makes you come across as a bit of a prick.
:yes: I agree with this (there's always a first for everything!
Not once have I stated that there is a problem with someone being a veggie, I have stated that there is a problem with them looking down on me, which has happened and implying I am an animal abuser, that I do not care for the environment, and that eating meat is WRONG, I never said eating just rabbit food is wrong.
Vegetarian isn't rabbit food - you are coming across just as ignorant as the vegetarians who slate meat eaters.
You have said stuff like "this is why I hate vegetarians, they are x,y and z" several times and it's made me want to slap you because you're doing just what the people who said meat eaters were animal abusers did - you are labelling a massive group of people under the same umbrella.
:yes:
:yes:
Just wanted to pick you up on this. Many resources (such as this study) will tell you that grain-fattened animals take more energy and protein from their feed than they return in the form of food for humans. Basically, the crops that it takes to feed one cow (which in turn will not feed many humans), could feed many more humans if the crops were grown directly for human consumption. Soybeans produce around 356 pounds of useable protein per acre, whereas meat produces 45 pounds of useable protein per acre. So in theory, we could easily feed the whole population, if crops were grown solely for the purposes of human consumption as opposed to grown for animal feed.
Also, this argument that everyone keeps putting forth that "eating meat is fine because it is natural" or "we are designed to eat meat so it is morally acceptable to do so" is fallacious (see the naturalistic fallacy or the is-ought problem, if anyone is interested). Leaving aside the fact that saying we are "designed" to do anything includes all sorts of presuppositions regarding a supermoral "designer", you cannot equate moral rightness with "natural" and moral wrongness with "unnatural". We all think such arguments are ridiculous when used re: other topics such as homosexuality, so why use them when talking about consumption of meat? A 13 year old girl can "naturally" have sex and have a baby, in fact she may be "designed" to do so from virtue of having a functioning reproductive system, however that does not mean that she *should* have a baby.
When making moral choices there are lots of other factors involved, and considering whether we are naturally capable of doing act X is not the same as considering whether it is *right* to do act X. Saying "it is natural" or "I am designed to do this" does not make it right or wrong.
Also, the old chestnut "there will be no animals if we don't use them for meat" is rubbish - are animals not capable of breeding naturally? Do we not keep animals for pets, or to see in zoos, without eating them?
I have no problem with people eating meat at all, none of my business, I just think it would be morally inconsistent for me to eat it myself. However saying it is morally acceptable because it is "natural" is very weak, since you wouldn't apply the "natural/non-natural" test to other ethical dilemmas.
I understand this is a contentious issue, and that people get more crotchety about this topic than a lot of others, but it's the topic being debated - if you don't like hearing that someone finds your views/actions objectionable, then you're not in the right place. Ranting "I hate preachy vegetarians/meat-eaters" is a piss-weak distraction.
Enough said
For those who 'know' me relatively well, this raises a dilemma. Do I spit or swallow? :chin:
I am 80-90% raw vegetarian these days as well and wouldn't ever really buy meat in the supermarkets as its full of hormones and chemicals.....but I like to have the option when going out somewhere nice for a meal as the veggie options on the menu aren't always that appealing, or necessarily much healthier.
Well they did (well to be omnivores, not carnivores). The one thing about humans that made us such a successful species is to be able to survive on such a varied diet. The initial migration into East Asia and Siberia, for example, was motivated by the availability of big game for hunting.
But like people have said, the fact that we've evolved to do something doesn't make it right. We've evolved to attack men who show an interest in our girlfriend, but no-one would argue that that's morally acceptable.
I would say that we 'adapted' rather than evolved. Its easier to kill an animal for immediate fulfilment with hunger. If we truly were meat eaters, where are our canines? And why is our long digestive system so geared for a vegetable diet in line with other herbivores - whereas true carnivores have a short digestive tract?