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Demonising fat people
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the point is, that people being very strongly against fat people to the point of revulsion and then saying its ok because its evolution to be revolted by something unhealthy and gravitate towards healthy things, and im saying it isnt as simple as that. The ACTUAL point of this discussion seems to have gone by the wayside a long time ago with people insisting its actually easy peasy to lose weight, everyone has got the time and energy to do it, talking about how hard they work in the gym.
The original point was that fat people are demonised in society, now plenty of people are justifying it by saying that its evolutionary thing to be repulsed by it, but I am saying that isnt necessarily so, and given the anti-certain-healthy-bdyshapes as an example that noone really gives a shit about the health aspect when it comes to other people in the street, and its EVERYTHING to do with some personal or cultural measure of what is aesthetically pleasing or not.
I dont think its sidetracked at all.
And no, im not saying obesity is healthy
I don't think that has been said in this thread...? Certainly not by me, anyway. ETA -
I really need to stop posting in this as it's getting in the way of my work... Damn this place
:yes:
You can't even go on clothes size. I was shocked when someone I know said she was a size 16-18. Shes tall and broad, big basically but she's not overweight for her body size and it suits her. She's healthy and has the right amount of fat for her size. If I was a size 16 I'd probably be dead as my bone structure is tiny. If I was a size 12 I'd be very overweight for the size I'm supposed to be.
This thread is by no means having a dig at people who are bigger than others (apart from ricardo cos he's insane, and a prick). The point is that some people gain weight to the point that it is neither attractive or healthy (obese). Oh my lord I don't even know what the point is any more!
Diet + Cardio = weight loss
99.9% of people i.e. those without a medical condition
Of course it doesn't. Having a symmetrical face doesn't actually correlate with health but humans still prefer symmetry for that reason. Its all evolutionary traits that don't quite match the environment we live in yet we can't quite shake. That doesn't mean they don't cloud, or even dictate our judgement
Bottom line yet again is that like attracts like. Supermodels, sports stars etc would not associate with me and my social circles because they would deem us inferior - less attractive, less classy, less 'cool'. The same applies for groups of people we would find less attractive. It's rather rare to have social groups where some people are utterly stunning and others are 'fat and ugly'.
I get considered to be quite good looking yet all my immediate friends are overweight or obese.
We're not supermodels and sports stars here so your comments are void.
Actually, why are you even here associating with us lesser beings? Go and lick the arses of your aesthetically pleasing friends.
Or had to have steroid treatments and put on a lot of weight?
Or had an accident in which they became facially disfigured?
Would they not be aesthetically pleasing enough for you to be associated with?
True, genuine friends, are about personalities and sharing parts of your life and supporting each other, not making each other look good.
my friends range from being stunning to average to not particularly attractive, and the sizes are pretty much the whole range too.
I just seriously dont get why people are bothered by the weight or looks of other people unless they personally are in a relationship with them.
What a shitty group of friends you have then. I pity you.
But what irritates me is that after you write something such as this in your opening post:
and then people imply that you're shallow (or that that attitude is shallow), you get all defensive. Furthermore, you've continually alleged the fact throughout the thread that obese people are in that state out of their own fault, and that that's really what bothers you, that they 'whinge and don't do anything to help themselves' or something along those lines. Admittedly, it does come down to personal liberty to make certain choices - but then, I doubt you'd be so quick put it down to laziness or lack of self-control people who self-harm for example.
My point is, you hold certain points of view on the matter that go deeper than your "I can't help myself reacting how I do" attitude, and when you've gotten challenged on them, you've just held on thightly to them.
People here seem to place massive values on friendship, as if finding someone who's going to be an amazing friend is a rare experience, hence you should ignore how they look and just focus on the personality. I have a lot of friends who I all find great - fun to socialise with, there if I ever need a favour, great people. There's an abundance of them, so having to break off from one friend wouldn't be a huge loss, just like when I don't see friends who've moved to New York, Hong Kong etc for work.
It's not about friendships, it's about having a bit of humanity. Which you lack...severly.
It's important for people to bear in mind that they don't get to decide if they are offended. Other people have a right to explain how some comments make them feel. Someone saying that they didn't mean to be offensive, or don't care to be offensive, doesn't mean other people haven't been deeply hurt by their insults or haven't permanently changed their views of particular posters.
As to you Ricardo, you seem unable to understand what causes problems about your postings. As a result I can't see how you'll be able to post in this thread without being banned - you simply don't seem to have the empathy required for a discussion of a diffcult and involving issue. So I'd suggest not posting in this thread again if you want to avoid being banned.
I personally do place a high value on friendship, and I'm not going to apologise for that.
One of my friends at college has spina bifida, and had to take steroids, she put on some weight and her face was a bit swollen, and sometimes she even has to use a wheelchair (OH how unasthetically pleasing!!) But I was proud to go out with her as she was a lovely girl, beautiful with curly red hair, and was never short of friends or male attention.
I feel sorry for you, maybe one day you will be unfortunate enough to suffer from some sort of illness which affects the way you look, and then you'll be all alone with no-one there beside you, as all your 'great' dispensible friends will be out at their city bars hob-knobbing with the beautiful people.
Sorry Jim I know you said he shouldn't reply but I had to respond to his comments about not wanting to be seen with a so called friend.
Most people that are obese ARE in that state through their own doing - nobody else is throwing the food down their necks for them, regardless! Sure, there may be eating disorders involved etc, but it's still them doing the eating.
To be more accurate about what the point you're referring to, my issue is with people that are very big, complain about it all the time and try every faddy diet going, and yet won't actually bother trying to exercise - finding excuse after excuse not to. Effectively, they're looking for a short-cut to dropping pounds, and these shortcuts are rarely the gifthorse they appear to be. The people that are trying to do something, and the people that aren't bothered don't bother me at all, but I get sick of the whole "i've eaten nothing all day so i'll reward myself with a packet of biscuits for supper whilst i've sat at my desk all day then gone and laid on the sofa and then wonder why my diet doesn't work" attitude. THAT is what gets on my tits.
This bit doesn't make much sense. I'd put self-harm down to laziness? Erm... I have personal experience of self-harming (my mum used to and maybe still does) and so have PLENTY of views on that. Perhaps the two are similar, with obese people purposefully harming themselves by over-eating, and/or that food gives them the pleasure cutting would do a self-harmer. The thing is, I enjoy food as well, and know how good it makes me feel, but it doesn't mean I'm gonna go cutting myself after my tea. I'm not sure I am too happy continuing on this topic as it goes into different territory... I understand the point you are trying to make, and the fact that I could easily dig myself into a hole on this one with a load of self harmers joining in.
I'm not too sure where I've been challenged on my views and I haven't responded as openly as I can in this thread. If you can pull out any examples, I will gladly respond!
Having people who are just fun to socialise with and there if you need a favour aren't really close friends. I have many acquaintances like that; people I see at the weekend and have a laugh with, people I can hitch a ride somewhere from, or cadge small favours from.
My close group of friends are people I could call up in the middle of the night because I've had a nightmare and am being irrational - and they won't make me feel bad that they've got a chance-in-a-lifetime job interview at 9 the next morning. Close friends are ones who would drop anything if you needed them - when I broke up with my live in partner my friends literally got up and walked out of the cinema halfway through a film they were watching to come and offer support. I'm not friends with them because of the opportunities (either social or professional) that they can offer me. I'm friends with them because we share interests, and senses of humour, and because I know I can rely on them.
Anyway, that was me being sidetracked.
I think the point with weight and body fat is that it is primarily a cultural thing. Whatever is hardest to achieve is most desirable, hence very very fat women being idolised when food was scarce and they were more likely to be fertile when everyone else was starved. Now, people are less likely to be fertile than their counterparts if they're very overweight because the other end of the scale are a healthy weight. Now it is harder to stay slimmer because of high fat and sugar foods being prolific, larger portion sizes and a change in lifestyle. People want what is harder to achieve.
On a more personal note, in the last 6 years I've ranged from a size 8 to a size 16. I was no happier as a size 8 than as a 16. Society puts a lot of pressure on people to conform, and actually the closer they are to accepting what they have, the helathier they are mentally. Right now, I could do more exercise (any exercise...), i could lose some weight. But i'm not so bothered about my size that I desperately feel the need to do so. If i have a couple of bad days, i'll try and eat healthier for a week or so afterwards. Moderation is my new watchword
Anyway, i'm going skiing in Jan. That'll shift it
I'm sorry we have really different views on this.
Shallow, to me, is taking into account only the surface of things, without looking any deeper. If you are disgusted by a person because of the way they look, then that is the very definition of shallowness.
I disagree, strongly. Nothing I said has been shallow in my understanding of the term. What somebody finds repulsive is not something they can easily qualify or choose. My reasoning I have already stated, and if that's not good enough for you, then so be it - in the end, it's no skin off my nose (ooo, maybe I am getting a little defensive here!:D).
ETA - have you NEVER judged something/somebody purely on looks? For example, somebody looks a bit rough/dodgy and so you avoid them by crossing the road so to 'avoid any trouble'? I find that hard to believe.
I don't have a massively intricately woven reason of why I am repulsed, but a couple of perfectly valid and strong reasons, on top of which I just don't like it! It doesn't HAVE to be massively complicated at all :yeees:
Look - I wouldn't bother to overrate nor underrate anybody on here, personally. As I said to KHSS (I think?), I don't know anybody on here and so they are, in effect, nothing but some words to me, and so it's not really something that will stick with me once the thread is finished.
Really though, if you could provide the examples of me not giving an open response to a challenge, I would appreciate it.
Do you really feel that way? Maybe I take things to heart too much and spend too much time on here (probably, but hey, I'm at work so getting paid for it) but all this is not "just words" to me.
I feel like I "know" some of the posters here, especially those who have been on here for quite a long time. You build up relationships and banter etc, and then personally, I don't want to upset them or hurt them, the same as I wouldn't with people in "real life". Just because it's via a computer and on the internet, doesn't make it any less real.
Unless I know somebody in real life, no I don't class them as a friend, nor do I really care too much about them. Banter etc is good, but friendship? No.
It's the internet, it's not part of my real life. I just don't class the two as the same thing, although I do get temporarily involved in threads - as we all do. Once done with it, that's it! Nice and easy