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Demonising fat people
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It's not even thact. Many people in third world countries eat perfectly healthy diets and that is why you don't get fat cunts walking around.
When I eat crap and do fuck all exercise I put on weight. When I eat properly and am active I lose it and level out at a healhty weight. That is how it works for the majority of people too.
well thats fine. Noone could complain at that.
I saw several examples of people who were overweight, despite a relatively healthy lifestyle and despite doing more exercise than most slim people do.
I just dont think fat is always such a reliable indicator of someones health, nor of the effort they may or may not put into a healthy lifestyle, so people should maybe not be so quick to judge.
:yes:
Exactomundo.
I think a few of us (battling on the side of good health) have tried to differentiate, but the responses have failed to take this into account, making out that we're just having a pop at anybody with a slight tummy.:rolleyes:
Speaking personally, it has taken me years to be happy with my weight. I wouldn't know a rowing machine if it knocked me over in the street but I get plenty of "exercise" in daily life, and I enjoy walking, being outside, cycling, playing... a lot more than I would enjoy the gym. I think it's less an issue of getting people into gyms and more the need to get people active... in some way, any way!
Speaking generally, I couldn't care less about other people's weight other than that of my nearest and dearest. Even then it's only the extremes that catch the attention isn't it? Anyone who was focusing in on people slightly under/overweight would be likely to have their own body image issues... but, then, I don't think anyone is focusing on the over or underweight. Being obese is a different issue, I can't understand or give my approval to it but I reserve judgement because people have their reasons. Sometimes.
Firstly this is an emotive issue, as Briggi says, and it's especially one because it affects many individuals directly who use these boards, just as it effects many people directly and on a large scale outside of these boards.
The original post here was about the need to address the issues of weight, and specifically being over-weight and obese, without the need to demonise people. I find nothing in many of the comments from those who don't have weight issues that challenges how important that is. I'm not aware of, for example, Skive ever self-harming but I'd be shocked to see him post in a thread about self-harm calling people who do 'cutting cunts'. Yet it seems to slip far easier off the tongue when applied to someone who is fat.
So I think if this issue is to get the honest chance of debate it deserves then I think it would be best for people to remember that you are talking and posting messages that will be read by people who are over-weight or obese. So let's all decide that we're able to do that without using insults? After all if someone is saying that health is important not weight then it doesn't need to contain insulting remarks to people who you've called friends on these boards.
There's also a few other issues that people may want to consider. Firstly, I think most people would agree that being obese is a sign of ill-health - we're a long way from the days of weight being a sign of health and the risks to a persons life span and impact on their lives are evident and clear. However, that doesn't mean that everyone should be the same weight, of course.
So given it's obvious that being heavily overweight is unhealthy maybe it might be more useful for people to consider what reasons there are that people do become so over-weight?
Obviously there is a gut reaction from many people to this, and they are of course entitled to it, that it should just be an issue of self-control or personal responsibility. However, I don't think I'd ever expect any other issue along similar lines to draw quite so vehement a dismissal of any contributing factors.
It seems to me that many people involve themselves in behaviour that is harmful or damaging. The rates of anorexia or drug addiction, even current levels of teenage pregnancy and STI transmission all suggest that people have lifestyles that at times can put their health in danger. However, I would be surprised to see people be so dismissive of the factors that may lead to this - would people argue that we should treat STI's with no examination of the factors that make someone refuse to use a condom? That we should treat drug addicts by simply ignoring why it has occured, or even worse by refusing help to addicts and simply treating them as people with no will power?
Many recent reports have painted a stark picture of the UK. We have the fastest growing rate of STI infection, studies suggest we are the most depressed and unhappy nation in Europe, we have very high rates of teenage pregnancy. All this, to me, would suggest that factors outside of personal responsibility are relevant when treating behaviour that may cause health problems. What those may be people may like to consider for themselves.
As to the issue of why people are obese, directly rather than part of a whole picture of health problems, well there are always going to be two constants in society. No one is born obese and the society we live in does look down on those people who are.
Many people learn different coping mechanisms to deal with emotional stress and problems that life presents. Some are positive ways to deal with issues, some are less so, or evidently negative. Self harm may be a way to cope but I think people here would agree it's something we'd all rather see people not having to do. Some people may find their relationship to food is something that they use. It's long been seen as a recognised issue within eating disorders such as anorexia that people are trying to control their own appearance or eating habits due to a lack of control on the world around them (at least in a recognisably large number of people who've been treated for anorexia).
So, I wonder if people think it might be possible that if on one hand someone restricts their eating due to other issues or problems they are experiencing, that it could be equally possible that someone could eat too much. Or that their issues around their body image could lead to someone becoming fat or obese, rather than thin? Beyond what would be naturally comfortable and healthy for their own genetic make-up?
I just think that it might be a useful way forward in this debate for people to consider how the issues around self-esteem, consumption, advertising, learned behaviour, coping mechanisms and societies most commonly proferred views can all contribute to each other, along with a sense of personal responsibility. And what solutions may be available to deal with those people who aren't happy with their weight, or whose health is harmed by it (and that could equally apply, as many have mentioned, to those with
problems being under-weight and over-weight).
A few people have said, 'I just don't understand why people don't exercise more'. Well hand on my heart I'll do that thing I'm never supposed to do as a moderator. I don't understand either but I do have huge issues with my own body image and being over-weight. To be frank I could barely even tell you how I'm supposed to look, or how much over-weight I am. I just know that at times I feel incredibly fat and that it ties into times of being pretty low emotionally. I also know that often I deal with it by eating badly and doing little exercise.
That may make no sense to many posters, but then again it makes no sense to me either. So cards on tables, I'm fat, or I think I am? Nope, I definitely am
So, if people wonder why people are over-weight or wonder why people don't exercise more, don't make the mistake of thinking that the people who don't exercise as much as they should or are obese don't wonder the same thing. Don't be surprised to realise that those people who are obese probably dislike the way they look even more than the people who aren't obese. It's one thing to think fat people are disgusting when you aren't. To feel the same thing at times when looking at yourself, it's much harder.
And I think this is what people here have found really difficult with some of the earlier comments, a confirmation of the feelings that contribute to the very problem itself. Obviously the Patrick Bateman-ism from Ricardo aside, I don't think people are being hurtful deliberately, just that with such an issue it can feel very painful to read. Especially from friends, or other members of a community that people have grown to be a part of.
So anyway, enough of the personal comments, that'll not happen again
I just know that my issues with weight are a result of large number of contributing factors, none of which are going to go away simply because I lose weight. It's dealing with those factors that are likely to make a difference in my life, in other's lives, and doing so is a personal choice, but simply dropping a load of weight wouldn't solve them. After all sometimes it's better the devil you know, than the devil you don't. Even a negative coping mechanism can be better than the unknown.
Anyway - on with the debate
Only just got back home and cooked, about to eat and so will no doubt continue the debate tomorrow. When it comes down to it though, I think most of what can be said has been said, and so we could end up going round in circles as is often the case with some topics.
We'll see what happens, eh?
G.
Being overweight/obese is not fun. I'm two-three stome overweight have PCOS and have had a very low self-esteem/body image for a long, long time. I can accept my body now more then I use to a couple of years ago but I still suffer. Being obese can be very bad for your health, and more should be made to encourage people to lose weight by making exercise more accessable and working on low self-esteem/food issues.
Some people are just naturally a few pounds overweight and as long as they are healthy then there is nothing wrong with that. I'm never going to be a natural size 12 never mind 8!
As always
Oh-oh... Here we go: See my next post.
Yes in hind sight it wasn't a very clever or helpful comment. I don't regard fat people as 'fat cunts' so I don't really know why I said it? Perhaps as you say it rolls of the tongue a little too easilly, that and the fact my language leaves a lot to be desired sometimes.
I don't find fat people offensive or digusting in anyway, but I admit I do look at fat people and think, why don't you take care of yourself. I am quite matter of fact about why they are fat. I realsie some people are genetically disposed to putting on weight and that food addiction is as real as any other, but greed and laziness are the two biggest factors. People eat too much and arn't active enough. It's very simple really, eat more calories than you burn and you will put on weight.
And I don't think we should be telling people it's OK to be fat in the same way we don't tell people it's OK to smoke. These things kill people and do affect us all as a society.
I don't understand this - there are unbelievable numbers of ways to exercise (at home, the gym, outside, the pool etc etc), I really don't see what you mean by making 'exercise more accessible'??? Please give more detail, as to me, you have to be really looking the other way NOT too see all the options available!! They're almost limit-less!
What wrong with a run or even a just power walk after work?
I often go running or just spend a hour after work cycling up to the next village and back. I don't always want to do it, but now I don't have a very physically demanding job it's something I know I HAVE to do to keep in shape.
For those that can't stand the idea of exercising alone than competetive sport is excellent and far more fun.
i dont get why you cant understand that people make the personal choice for whatever reason not to exercise..not everyone who is overweight WANTS to lose weight.
Aye - after a 10 hour day sitting at a desk, the last thing I can be bothered doing is going for a workout. It takes real determination to go to the gym when I'd rather be on a sofa, scoffing lovely food. It's something, as you say, that has to be done though.
You seriously keep missing the point here :yeees:
We're now responding to the comment that somebody made that exercise needs to be made more accessible!! :banghead:
We've never said that everybody overweight wants or even NEEDS to lose weight but have quite clearly and numerously stated how if somebody DID want to, yet chooses to make excuses and go the diet option which never works for them and so they complain, they have so many options.
You seem to be taking in information selectively here, which is just not productive.
I was terrible at PE at school - mainly because my eyesight was atrocious - I had a very unkind teacher and when I finished education I was profoundly glad that I would never be made to play sport again.
I do plenty of exercise but it is all walking. I walk several miles a day to get to and from work, I go for a walk down by the river to the next village along, I go back to Cumbria and do fell walking. Anything that is sold to me as sport immediately makes me think of school and humiliation and I avoid it like the plague.
Aye - I sucked at PE too, and I don't do competitive sports and so I know where you're coming from. I'm not talking about everybody sign up for the local football team, but the options are still endless - even if it is as straightforward as going hiking
Yeah, that isn't the one that you quoted, firstly, and Skive was, as i've pointed out (:banghead:) responding to the comment I made to Purplebutterfly's post.
You need to respond to things in context.
And lacrymosa, TheSite is a place to post any problem or issue you want to discuss. At times these may contradict other people's posts or bring up conflicting issues. However you shouldn't feel bad about posting about what matters to you. No one wants anyone to feel that way about the threads that matter to them.
Excuse me? You were on about making exercise more accessable and I responded. Maybe I can rephrase it: Some people may choose not to access/take part in exercise out of choice. They do have the right.
If you're going to bother replying less of the weird head banging smiley, I don't see how that is helpful.
Ok but say you had a family and after a ten hour day at work, youd want to/have to go home and see your wife and kids no? Or say you were a single parent or a stay at home parent and pretty much your whole day from waking till bedtime is spent caring for young children.
For some people having opportunity to have a nice bike ride to the next village or an hour in the gym is a total luxury
And I'd argue you haven't - I think much of this thread has been spent in the shellshock of Ricardo's comments, which has caused the upset.