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Demonising fat people
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I've been for a few hours to an airport in the midwest of the USA and everyone at the airport was huuuuuuge - so big infact I don't believe it's simply caused by over just eating and lack of exercise
I do believe there is growing evidence that a virus out there is also leading to people being overweight
http://www.channel4.com/health/microsites/0-9/4health/food/ove_fatvirus.html
I agree with you, but my point was that a lot of people in this thread were saying that, rightly or wrongly, they can't understand why people don't look after themselves, and that's why they may have an opinion about bigger people.
What if (and I'm not saying it definitely is, but what if) the healthiest state to be in is a bit overweight, and actually you are doing yourself and your body an amount of harm by being a 'normal' weight? Would they then equate normal and underweight people as not looking after themselves and look down on them for that reason, or is it just acceptable because fat people are fat? If that makes sense.
That wouldnt surprise me, Thinking of the way that hormones can affect weight gain or loss. People can pile on the weight when on certain hormonal contraceptives or during pregnancy or with certain medications without even really changing their eating habits particularly so it stands to reason that there could be other biological causes for it being much more difficult for someone to gain or lose weight.
Not that this is the point.
Next, everyone in Etheopia will be obese.
I see what you're saying. And to be honest I don't know... It could be if becoming slightly overweight becomes more common, people will start to see that as attractive or it could be that people will still see a 'perfect' body shape as being thin, even if that brings health risks (after all many supermodels are seen as having perfect shapes despite in medical terms being too thin*)
Certainly there used to be less of a taboo about weight and it was seen as a social plus. Whilst I can't find a copy on line there's a cartoon from the French revolution which shows a well-gutted John Bull stuffing his face with food and contrasting him to a starving Frenchman, with a line comparing British liberty to French equality
* though whilst I like prefer thin women, supermodels are too skinny even for me.
You were on holiday mate so it's not really the same is it
Supermodels are only seen as having perfect shapes by fashion designers because they show clothes off well. Just like jockeys are the perfect male shape because to horse trainers they do the job best. Doesn't say anything about general opinion (which I think seems fairly hostile to the supermodel look tbh). But on your other point, when did what is most common equate to what's seen as most attractive? Maybe I'm living in the wrong area, but I don't see many women with curvy hips, slim waists, big breasts, long legs and a perfect face. Aren't 2/3 of the population already "slightly overweight?" I can't see it getting much more common than that.
aye that stuff about the subsidies makes sense based on what i saw in the shops, one tiny aisle of chemically preserved fruit + veg that looks real shiny but rots in your fridge after 2 days, nice.....and rows and rows of meat, i was lucky i didn't have to cook at all while i was out there i think i would have struggled, was actually on training and not holiday COT so the food was free and we ate out most nights, thought and restraint didn't come into it lol but they do some damn good seafood on the east cost i'll give 'em that.
If you think the solution is so easy then go to the USA and start your own exercise programme and make an infomercial - you'll be a multi millionaire in no time.
How do you explain that in Western Cultures asthma and Peanut allergies are quite common but in Africa they're not?
Should we just assume Westerners are weak and feeble? or could there be other causes? The fact your mind seems so closed to other possibilities is a real shame.
Do you know what a stem cell is? If not look it up then read this study
http://www.biologynews.net/archives/2007/08/20/common_virus_may_contribute_to_obesity_in_some_people_new_study_shows.html
In the current study, Pasarica and her associates obtained adult stem cells from fatty tissue from a broad cross-section of patients who had undergone liposuction. Half of the stem cells were exposed to Ad-36 Virus and the other half were not exposed to the virus.
After about a week of growth in tissue culture, most of the virus-infected adult stem cells developed into fat cells, whereas the non-infected stem cells did not.
Don't even know why I'm talking about stats, I hate stats.
Lets cut all the other crap mate.
Every single person I have ever known who has ACTUALLY dedicated themselves to a decent diet and exercise program with a goal of losing weight has acheived it.
Not just gym rats and bodybuilders, even my mother and my fathers fiance, they have both recently lost a couple of stone each through just dieting.. and in my dads fiances case doing some brisk walking and slight jogging now and again.
I am yet to meet or see one person, who bar any medical problem, has not been able to do it to an effective extent.
Yes, genetics play a part, society plays a part.. it might be HARDER for some people to lose weight and easier for others to gain weight.. but thats just it, its harder, not impossible????
If weight loss stops, tweak the diet, up the output.
For the record, I am not an ectomorph, I predominantly hold fat quite easily, and by nature I have a terrible shape, not a natural beer belly if I get fat, I get it all around my hips etc like a woman lol.. but I know when I'm carrying excess weight its because I'm eating more than I'm burning.. etc .. simple really
We have it too easy now and that's why if you want to stay fit and healthy you have to make what seems like a special effort, when in reality our body's are still geared too having to work physically for our food and luxuries. The foods available now to us fromt he supermarket are often well quite removed form the foods our body is designed for.
You have to make an effort if you want to be healthy, fit and slim nowadays.
How many people here still think Stomach Ulcers are caused by stress alone?
For hundreds of years this was what people thought until in 1982 two doctors ? Barry Marshall and Robin Warren discovered a certain kind of bacteria that can live and grow in the stomach that helps cause the ulcers. Both doctors went on to win the Nobel Prize for their discovery.
http://www.kidshealth.org/teen/diseases_conditions/digestive/ulcers.html
I wonder how many of those people who blame their unhealthy weight on genes and hormaones actaully make the effort to go out and burn some of it off. In most cases very few I imagine.
I'd love to hear from someone who directly as made an effort to tweak the diet and exercise to lose weight and has failed, I would be willing to personally help, and I know several professional dietcians and PT's who I could call on for assistance.
Like I said earlier, it just doesn't happen, people can't be arsed.
Also, the main to remember is consistency is key.. there's no real short cuts.
OK Skive I know it seems obvious to you, but on packets of hormonal contraceptives etc, one of the listed side effects is weight gain.
Anecdotally for me (although its barely an isolated case) When I came off hormonal contraception I lost over a stone in a matter of weeks without doing anything different. I wasnt eating less, I wasnt exercising more, I just didnt have all those extra hormones floating about. All my times of being bigger discounting pregnancies, has been when ive been on a hormonal contraceptive.
Certain things can predispose a body to storing fat more effectively than others. You must have noticed that its not an uncommon phenomenon for a skinny person to eat like a horse and never put on an ounce, yet for some people they just cant get away with eating anything over quite a low amount without gaining weight. Different people have different amount of growth hormones, different ways in which the thyroid gland works can cause people to either be underweight or overweight, different levels of insulin in the body can cause this too
It just stands to reason that if hormones can do it, then MAYBE a virus could too.
I havent looked into it, but it doesnt sound at all far fetched to me for some cases
You don't think it's a coincidence that the fat nations on earth are also the nations where life is a lot easier? The US is the fast food capital of the world, it's also the fattest nation on the planet.
And hormones make you store foods different which is what causes the weight gain. It just means that if you want to do something about that than you have to work harder being active.
As I've maintained throughout this thread you can be big and be healthy, you cant be FAT and healthy though.
I don't think that's necessarily true. You're not going to tell me that Japan have fewer sit-down desk jobs than anywhere else in the world, and yet they manage to keep the pounds off (the rest of Europe while they're at it). Now I admit that Asian people tend to be slimmer in general, but the increase in popularity of American fast food over there in recent years has corrolated fairly well with an increase in obesity. In fact one American bloke online who lives in Japan claimed that his Japanese girlfriend put on weight for the period they were going out purely because they started to eat the things that he was used to as a couple. Also, a lot of people claim that they put on weight during uni because of a poor diet. I suspect that for the majority of people starting uni, walking is their main mode of transport, and sitting at a desk has been their full time job for the past 12 years, so I doubt you can blame inactivity as the main cause.
Their diet is lot better. They eat a lot of fish.
That's because people in asia have a better diet generally. It's not as though asian people can't get fat, look at sumo.
Exactly. Eat too much crap and you'll get fat.
Too much food and not enogh activity are the main cause of being unhealthily over weight. It's not rocket science.
I agree, but I reckon diet is a far greater influence than activity for the reasons I've already given. If everyone was doing manual labour every day, then it might be different, but in modern society, I think that diet is always going to be more important. An hour at the gym every few days is never going to compete with 8 hours a day of manual labour that people used to do, so diet is vital nowadays. So fuck Jamie Oliver. Get all the kids on sushi and rice.
Being healthy isn't just about being the right weight it's about your level of fitness. It's a balance between diet and activity. Get either one of them wrong and your health will suffer. You can be a little overweight and still be healthy by keeping your fitness up, whilst you can be slim and severly unhealthy by being completely innactive.
I'm not saying an hour at the gym every few days is going to make much difference. It takes more than that if you don't have a physically demanding job. You set an hour every day to excercise if your not getting your heart rate up at work.
There is a great article about what 'fitness' really means by my old nutritionalist, I'll dig it out later, its a great read.
People are obese in the USA because they eat too much and drive everywhere! I know people from the Midwest from when I lived in France and all they would talk about is fast food restaurants and want to eat at MacDonalds all the time!
I think it's largely about culture... go visit L.A where the people are OBSESSED with dieting and fitness and try telling me the same.
I do agree that some people are naturally slimmer than others but that doesn not excuse the increasing levels of obesity!
I remember watching a documentary on Channel 4 which detailed how the claims of differing metabolisms were greatly over-stated. According to the doctor on the show a few pounds could be attributed to metabolism, but very rarely much more than that.
There seems to be a trend of over-complicating the reasons for being overweight. I couldn't care less how much people weigh, and i have no interest in bolstering the notion that overweight people should be treated like social pariahs. What does frustrate me is when people make excuses about their weight - if you're happy with it then fine, if not, do something about it.
I had a housemate who was insistent her being overweight wasn't due to excessive eating. I saw her eat her meals, they were massive. It came to the point where she was just plain insulting my intelligence.
this is what irks me. well..... I have to say that when I see a very oerweight person (Morbidly obese) I do wonder why they haven't actually done something about their weight, and I assume that the reason they are so fat is because they eat more calories than they consume... but I digress.
It really irritates me when people moan about their weight constantly, yet refuse to accept that they are responsible for their condition.
oh yeah - sure. I have had these long debates on another forum, and I did aknowledge that I offended a few people with my attitude (I am rather fattist) ... but like I say, I can sympathise but when someone complains all the time about it but fails to do anything to change it, or when someone tells everyone to butt out because they are happy being fat but then privately moans to me about it and tells me how unhappy they are....well I find it annoying.