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Demonising fat people
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Are you having a joke that spotty people actually don't wash or am I getting confused?
Are you quite sure about that? Because some of the magazine covers I've seen featuring the likes of Keira Knightley or the Olsen Twins have been just as bad as anything I've seen a fat person go through. Furthermore, there seems to be this backlash, that you need to be at least a little bit fat to be a "real woman." And try telling someone with bad acne that fat people have it bad.
why dont people have the same repulsion for people with other health issues then?
Why arent I genetically programmed to be repulsed by other random peoples health problems yet you are?
Are people really repulsed by disabled people? I'm not sure I ever have been? Yet someone with severe disabilities may be uncomfortable to look at and would surely contain a even stronger 'genetic programming' - yet it seems people are much more comfortable with their degrogatory remarks about fat people than disabled people. Not that I feel that way about fat people or disabled people - but I guess if the reason people have a problem with fat people is what you mention they'd have exactly the same view of people with severe disabilities.
we're all human afterall
I see it all the time in the street in town when people are walking past someone with a deformity. Women tend to contort their face and look disgusted, guys tend to laugh and make jokes.
Well yeah, it's generally seen and accepted that disabled people can't help their fate and are unfortunate. The common opinion on fat people is that they have the power to change it if they actually tried.
I was responding to something someone else posted where they said 'Spotty people don't wash' which I think is not true. Spots don't always come because of uncleanliness.
The point was that someone was saying that the view that 'all spotty people don't wash' was as equally unfair as assuming that 'all fat people are just lazy and greedy' - they were highlighting the problems of generalisations and stereotyping.
Like what? I can't see I've ever seen anyone particularly warm to the idea of yellow toe nails, flemmy coughs, bad acne, bad BO, anorexia, or any other specific health issues. Obviously the main difference is that these things are far less common in our society.
On disibilities, I think that is far more down to our social conditioning, rather than genetic makeup. The idea of treating everyone equally is something that is part of our society, and it will always get to people where their "issue" is percieved to not be their own fault, before someone where it is (assumptions made about fat people, as well as someone with BO problems and a few other things). But I challenge you to find someone without much experience of disabilities who doesn't at least feel a little bit uncomfortable dealing with someone with an obvious physical disability (and I suspect that the further away it gets from "normal" the more incomfortable people would be - I can confidently say that not a single person on this board would be able to treat the elephant man the same as everyone else, despite how hard they'd try to do so, even if the only measure would be the thoughts in their head - you'd see the disability first, and then the person). And of course, we have the acid test, which is that of attraction, and is an instinctive thing rather than an issue of social conditioning. There is proof that in the individual, the healthier they appear (even down to the subconscious level of things like how clear your eyes are), the more attractive they seem to the opposite sex. And so the implication of this is that any health problem that someone has will decrease their attractiveness. And to me, attractiveness is probably the best measure of someone's instinctive reactions, which they can override for social reasons when necessary (the gold digger character, for example). And so given this, I guess it's up to society to make it unacceptable for fat people to be treated in such a way, but like racism, it will never remove the root cause of it.
Can I also just point out SCC, that generally speaking with any basic genetic trait, some people will have it to a greater extent than others. Which is why some people are racist and some people aren't, and most are to some degree (to the degree that they will prefer their own group to another group, rather than outright hating someone from another group).
Dr. Russell Blaylock
"I am convinced that one of the leading causes of obesity is being totally ignored by both by public officials and the media, despite the fact that there is tremendous scientific evidence confirming its role.
In 1969, neuroscientist Dr. John Olney discovered that feeding newborn rats MSG (monosodium glutamate) caused them to become grossly obese.
Each time he repeated the experiment, he saw the same thing. Subsequent studies have shown that this phenomenon occurred in most animal species, indicating that it wasn't something peculiar to the rat.
The effects of MSG are now so well established that the substance is routinely used in experimental obesity studies on animals.
In fact, scientists have also discovered how it was producing the obesity.
For over fifty years, researchers knew that a pinpoint injury to certain parts of the hypothalamus portion of the brain would cause an animal to become grossly obese. What they would later discover was that MSG itself actually destroys the same area in the hypothalamus.
An intensive 1995 review of MSG toxicity by the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology (FASEB) concluded that infant formula contained a dose of glutamate (the toxic ingredient in MSG) in the form of caseinate (cow's milk protein) that would sufficiently produce the very same brain injury seen in experimental animals.
Disturbingly humans are five times more susceptible to MSG toxicity than even the most sensitive lab animal. And babies are four times more sensitive than adults. It is this early exposure to MSG and other excitotoxins that leads to gross obesity.
Actually, the problem is much worse than that.
Recent studies have shown that obese animals actually have the metabolic syndrome, which is now seen in 50 million adults in the United States. You will remember from my previous newsletter "The Diabetes Solution" that the metabolic syndrome is the cause of type-2 diabetes as well as hypertension and atherosclerosis.
Essentially, science proves that excitotoxins can trigger the metabolic syndrome and obesity.
And we know that the level of excitotoxins added to our food is at least equal to (and sometimes exceeds) the amount needed to produce the metabolic syndrome in animals. Yet only a handful of scientists are addressing this alarming association.
Recent studies have shown that glutamate (MSG and other excitotoxins) can powerfully stimulate the insulin-producing cells of the pancreas.
Excess insulin can cause atherosclerosis, hypertension and the type-2 diabetes - by stimulating chronic inflammation. And remember that insulin resistance can also lead to high insulin levels. Of course, the obese MSG animals experience all this as well.
It all fits in with what we are seeing in human beings. And one other part of the obesity puzzle has recently been pieced together.
In discussions about obesity, you may have heard about something called leptin. This enigmatic chemical is produced in the fat cells and controls many things, including fat accumulation.
Normally, when leptin surges into the blood, it enters the brain and acts within a specific group of neurons inside the hypothalamus to powerfully suppress the appetite and increase fat burning, thereby making us thinner.
But MSG and other excitotoxins damage the very nucleus of brain cells needed to do this. Those cells are known as the arcuate nucleus.
In fact, this vital collection of neurons is the area of the brain most sensitive to excitotoxins. In experiments, MSG rendered leptin ineffective, causing the animals to become grossly obese. Scientists call this leptin resistance, an occurrence linked to obesity in both children and adults.
Also, excitotoxins like MSG cause more glucose to enter fat cells, preventing it from being burned in muscle cells as it should. As a result, more fat accumulates - especially around organs and within the abdomen (visceral fat).
You may recall from the diabetes newsletter that this visceral fat is the root of all the of the metabolic syndrome's bad effects. The bottom line:
We see that the excitotoxins added to our food can induce gross obesity through a number of mechanisms.
And we must remember that while it is soon after birth that a child is first exposed to foods containing MSG and other excitotoxins, the effects persist for a lifetime.
Unbelievably, dietitians, medical doctors and many public institutions are promoting the use of "diet" soft drinks and other foods sweetened with aspartame (NutraSweet, Equal, etc) as the answer to the problem of obesity.
Aspartame is made up of three components: phenylalanine, methanol and aspartic acid. Aspartic acid (aspartate), like glutamate, is an excitotoxin.
It is just as capable as glutamate of doing damage to cells and brain nuclei.
In fact, one of the acknowledged effects of aspartame is weight gain.
The FDA even lists increased weight as one result of using the sweetener. Like glutamate, aspartame stimulates the pancreas to secrete insulin, making you hungry - especially for sweets. And the more you drink, the hungrier you get. Just like glutamate, aspartame destroys the arcuate nucleus, which in turn produces leptin resistance. As a result, you get fat."
What chance do we have when we are being bombarded with these poisons? They are in virtually EVERYTHING processed! The only way is to cut out all processed foodstuff.
Presumably "avoid processed foods" would be the obvious answer? Damn, you edited it just in time.
I never said I was ffs, I said the people that have said similar things in this discussion board.
I'm not repulsed by anyone, however I don't find extremely overweight people attractive in the slightest
And before I get flamed by boyfriend is about 16 stone and could do with losing a bit and I adore him. I'm personally talking about obese people
ETA: I'm pretty pissed off because looking back I never used the word 'repulsed' and I never said it was my opinion. I was answering for the other people that have been questioned about their views. Read properly next time please
Err, the Chinese are going through a massive obesity problem at the moment aren't they. I've certainly seen it reported on a number of occassions.
Of the 1 billion overweight people in the world supposedly 1 in 5 are Chinese
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-01-08-chinese-obesity_x.htm
http://www.worldfoodprize.org/assets/YouthInstitute/05proceedings/MediapolisHighSchool.pdf
http://www.mikibo.com/news/content56.php?cid=41
I never said anything about being repulsed!!!!!! Why have people put these words into my mouth (or my keyboard)
I siad that some people don't find extremely fat people attractive, or would like them for a mate. And the reason for this is genetics. Why have my words been completly twisted???????
Actually...
Did i say myself? Or people in this thread? Did I say find attractive or did I say repulsed?
MSG has been in their diet for ages as more of them are becoming obese would you not think this is due to an increasingly westernised diet and the less activity that comes with economic development rather than something that has been widely consumned for over 80 years
Do you think the average Chinese has been eating vast quantities of MSG for the last 30 years?! I doubt it. They're becoming obese now that the Western, processed diet is becoming more popular.
Just because Chinese takeaways in this country use the stuff liberally doesn't mean Chinese people in China have been eating it.
60 or 70 years ago people were not consuming tons of MSG in processed food, trust me.
Don't forget about the Aspartame.
I wasn't saying you were replused - but that's been a common statement about obesity throughout this thread, especially early on.
So I wasn't saying you were - but I was asking since you believe in a specific reason why people feel that way about obesity, whether you thought it applied to other similar situations. Which I don't think it does. Essentially, I'm curious to explore whether your suggestion on why something like obesity has provoked such bitter insults in this thread could also be applied to other similar conditions.
Quite. And there's a big difference between naturally occuring glutamate and free glutamates. It's free glutamates that do the damage.
There are no similar conditions though
Disabled people are different because the element of blame is taken away
Same with people considered 'ugly' - the element of blame isn't there,
Smokers are different because the health risks aren't immediately obvious, and because innate genetic preferences haven't evolved for this situation
And before my words get twisted again I do think that in some cases the element of blame SHOULD be taken away from people who have a problem with weight and that the right advice and professional help should be given to help sort out the problem (see attachment)
However, in some cases (and I know these people personally) people are fat because they can't be bothered to eat properly or exercise. That is what originally started this debate and was the point that the controversial posters were making
I've attached an essay I did in my second year of Uni highlighting possible reasons for obesity. It brings to light interesting explanations for weight gain. I chose to take that particular slant on the subject. If you don't want to read it fine. But then don't go on about how I'm repulsed by fat people cos its simply not true
To be fair, what started the debate was whether or not it was helpful to demonise fat people or if this actually makes the problem harder for people to address.
Anorexia?
Bit like when you get a doctor who is overweight and smokes? Guess you could argue you shouldn't advise people if you can't deal with the same problem. On the other hand you could still be the best trainer in the world and organise no-smoking sessions whilst smoking, or manage weight-loss at the same time as being overwieight?