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The "Islam Is Peace" campaign...
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... but the point is that this website denies that Jihad means 'holy war'.
The website considers this to be a "misconception", which is an outright lie.
'Holy war' is the primary definition of Jihad, and like I mentioned earlier, whenever the word 'jihad' is mentioned in the Quran it is always in the context of holy war.
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Well, that's what I've been arguing, but my point was specifically to sanitize who has stated that the Quran is the literal word of god, and as such must be taken literally, therefore there is only one interpretation of it, and that's exactly what is in the text.
The fact that many Muslim people don't kill non believers is down to them being poor followers of the faith and using their own morals, and their religion actually preaches hate. Or this is what sanitize has said, and like I said, my only understanding of Islam is from my limited experience.
Of course it is, saying the Muslim faith is as meaningless really as saying the Christian faith, there are huge differences. Similarly there is supposed to be a 'muslim community' in the UK when no one would ever say the 'christian community'.
Ooops ..
Christians also believe the Bible is the literal word of God, although the Bible has been chopped and changed, most likely often to benefit the elite.
Also, if there's onlyone sole interpretation of it why is there diversity in Islam?
Do the Jews and Christians believe their books are the literal word of God? I didn't think they did, though i'm not sure now. I thought they saw the different cannons as inspired text, but not literally God's words.
St. James's Version?
Well when I've been to Church after a reading they say 'this is the word of the lord, amen'.
Of course there not only one interpretation - people read what they want to read - even these small posts are taken differently by each person who reads them, let alone a big book.
Ask sanitize, he told me for off for saying there were different interpretations
THAT is what Islam is.
ANYTHING else (eg, your 'Muslim' friends, Amir Khan, so-and-so country etc)... represent Islam as far as they follow the Quran and Muhammad.
I really don't think you're making sense, nor have you really spoken much about which denomination you followed (tbh, maybe you mentioned before but it's a long thread), or your experiences.
It would be interesting to know and you can still retain your anonymity.
The point is that some interpretations are absolutely baseless.
It all goes back to what's in the Quran and what was taught by Muhammad.
For example... you can't 'interpret' Islam to say that drinking alcohol is ok. I'm sure we all have Muslim friends who drink alcohol... but we also all know that drinking alcohol is definately NOT Islamic.
Does that mean that our Muslim friends who drink alcohol represent Islam?
Hardly.
They may represent Islam in other aspects of their life though.
I hope you see the point I'm trying to make.
As far as I was concerned, I was a Muslim and thats it.
Some interpretations yes, but to suggest that everyone reading one book can come to the same conclusions is bonkers.
There is no one version of Islam because there is more than one reader of the book.
Ok... So what're the differences between Sunni and Shi'a?
And (if you don't mind me asking) what was the turning point where you decided to break free from what you were brought up as?
I met a guy a couple of weeks ago, he was brought up Catholic and is a white Pole (as in Polish, not literally a pole hehe) and he said that Islam is far more respectful of women than Catholicism. He was a really interesting person to talk to and dicussed ramadan too. To him and to other Muslims I've met who fast, the fasting appeared to be almost like breaking away from the material world in a sense, as well as an attempt to gain some sort of empathy for people who are in the position where they cannot afford a lot of food. They were saying that food is almost like an attachment, or sometimes even a guilty pleasure and that you only really need it to survive, rather than to indulge... If that makes sense.
Also, I've been told that Islam is quite an environmental religion...
Are these true?
Can't you?
Read for yourself in the Qur'an [16:67] "And from the fruits of the palm trees and grapevines you take intoxicant and good provision. Indeed in that is a sign for a people who reason."
This is down, of course, to the very convenient issue of abrogation whereby Muhammed was able to decree the word of Allah to say one thing - but was then able to contradict it with another, when and how it suited his purpose.
There are loads of very inconsistent examples like this throughout the Qu'ran.
Never did when I went to church as a child, though it might depend on which branch you belong to.
However, there is only one Koran. That is the original version written in Arabic. As I understand it God entered Mohammed and the Koran literal word of God. If you read the Koran in French you are not reading the Koran, but a translation of the Koran.
The Bible is however inspired by the word of God. Whilst some of it may have been written by saints, it was never written by God. There is therefore no 'official' Bible for christianity (though there may be official versions for a particular branch or in a particular country). If you read the Bible in French you are still reading the Bible, not a French translation. the Good News is as official as the King James (though not as well written)
Yeh, sure you are. :rolleyes:
What does it matter? He could be a fucking martian for all I care, it still doesn't disprove what he's saying. Maybe discuss the arguments, rather than the person making them?
It does matter, I hate little lying fuckwits like that.
It's like those "I'm not racist, my best friend is black" types.
Or is ad-hominem your only input?
Great, like I really needed to know what an Ad-hominen was.
As an ex-Muslim then surely you would actually have a bit of knowledge to what the religion actually stands for and that it's not a monolithic block of thought and hatred towards the "west"?
Sunni's say that it was Muhammads best friend, Abu Bakr.
Shia's say that it was Muhammads son, Ali.
There were many reasons and turning points. It was a gradual process.
I could go into detail but I don't want to divert the discussion too much.
I can't speak for Catholicism, and I can't compare Islam to Catholicism to see which is more respectful... but I do know that Islam certainly does not respect women as much as the Islamic propagators claim it does.
You have to understand that the majority of the information that is presented to westerners/non-Muslims about Islam are written by Islamic propagators who suger-coat the teachings. Just like this 'IslamIsPeace' website.
It's highly likely that this Polish guy got his information from these inaccurate dishonest sources... instead of the real source (Quran and Hadith).
Anyway I can't comment on any specifics because I need to know exactly what this Polish guy learn about Islam and whether its accurate or not.
I like fasting. It does make you appreciate food etc.
Even though I don't consider myself a Muslim any more I still fast during ramadhan (some of you may find that strange). Just because you've rejected a religion it doesn't mean you can't continue doing some of the things that you've been accustomed to doing when you were a Muslim.
In what way is it enviornmental?
Your 2nd comment is loaded.
Can you please compose yourself and participate in the discussion properly without that chip on your shoulder (towards me).
What does it stand for? Why are westerners naive and gullible?
Good comeback...I mean, is a Muslim in Sudan the same as a Muslim in Iran? Do they practice the same customs, believe in the same strands of Islam? What about a Muslim in Brazil and a Muslim in Indonesia? Are they the same, is their one goal just to hate women and launch a Jihad against the West?
I am composed, you're just a liar. And a bad one at that.
I am discussing the actual religion of Islam, its teachings, and its founder (Muhammad).
I am not talking about the adherents of the religion who were merely born into the religion, and who don't necessarily represent the religion itself.
Can everyone please understand that.
Ad-hominem and slander is all you've contributed to this thread so far.
This isn't a laughing matter, and its happening in the world right now in certain Islamic countries.
I swear people like you take freedom for granted.
And herein lies your problem. You're assuming that Islam is a monolith, you're the one here who is dictating what Islam is and is not.
My point about different countries is that in different societies, Muslims will have a different outlook on the importance of Islam and it's texts. In secular states, there will be no Islamic courts.* There is no day to day expectence to adhere to the strict word of the Qu'aran, it's different everywhere you go. To assume that Islam is one central thing that is the same everywhere in the world shows crass ignorance of what's really going on. The violence purpotrated by supposed Muslims is all tied up with deeper socio-economic and ethno-nationalist problems within those societies. That's my point.
*There are Islamic courts in Nigeria although only Muslims can be tried in them.