If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Read the community guidelines before posting ✨
Options
The "Islam Is Peace" campaign...
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Hi Aladdin,
This is exactly what a lot of people are doing when they tell Muslims that they should read the Q'uran, hadiths, etc for themselves. Most Muslims do not know what is in their own texts. When they do they tend to realize their own humanity. That is, if their capacity for independent thought hasn't been limited by the indoctrination process that is such a big part of Islam.
As far as "unsavoury passages" in the Bible goes it is more than commonly recognized that these are DESCRIPTIVE as opposed to those "unsavoury passages" in the Q'uran which are definitely PRESCRIPTIVE. But Muslims seem to ignore that part because they are not allowed to read the Bible.
But I also have a duty to tell the truth.
Regarding polygamy in Islam, the website says this:
^ That is an outright LIE, and again I'm not surprised that they didn't quote any Quranic verses to back it up because there simply aren't any.
A man does not require the persmission/consent of his first wife if he wants to marry another woman.
I challenge anyone to find any verse or saying of Muhammad which says that the consent of the first wife is required if a husband wants to take a 2nd/3rd/4th wife.
Men are marrying 2nd, 3rd and 4th wives all over the Islamic world and they can do so without the consent of their existing wives... and this is happening as we speak.
This is Shariah.... this is Islam.
Well there was something in the news only recently about how some guy was campaigning to have the law that requires the consent of the first wife to be overthrown, therefore I guess the law must exist in the first place.
Thats not to say that women arent ever coerced into consenting but thats not the same thing
This guy who was campaigning obviously wanted to do away with the countries 'man-made' law regarding this issue... and return to the Islamic law.
And as I've mentioned, in Islamic law you certainly do not require the consent of the first wives if you want to take another one.
Are you wanting the book banned?
Although I will say this to the new posters here - if people want to put forward their personal opinions that's fine and all part of debate - but please provide quotes when claiming things as facts.
These 'lovely people' wouldn't have a leg to stand on when they're confronted with the 'true' Muslims who follow the true Islam.
We should be thankful that the majority of 'Muslims' (who were merely born into the religion) don't follow much of the teachings of Islam, but you must be blind if you don't notice the vast number of Muslims who DO follow these teachings and are causing havoc around the world.
**sorry I couldn't think of a better word than 'blind'. I didn't mean that offensively**
But from a practical point of view, I think that the Islam Is Peace slogan seems a bit misguided. It seems to be focused on convincing outsiders that this huge entity known as Islam is peaceful. My strategy would be to attack the aspects of your community who you feel give "Islam" a bad name. This is why Chris Rock's stand up piece was so revolutionary, because it actively attacked the negative aspects of the black community, such as pride in lack of education, consumerism, crime, a victim mentality, and actively split the minority "black people" into two groups raising people's awareness within the community, rather than outside of it.
The other problem is that they need to address those more violent passages for young muslims (this goes for Christianity too). I don't care what bullshit they invent to do it, but sweeping it under the carpet with a quick "It's not meant to be taken literally" isn't good enough. Because when someone is taught all their life that Islam is sacred, faith is a virtue, and serving Allah is the most important thing, then get properly interested and actually read the damn thing, they might have a few questions about why the Koran is telling them to kill people. And if their moderate parents, teachers, etc, aren't willing or able to answer the questions adequately, they'll go to someone who is, who is often some fundie twat with a particularly violent/literal "interpretation". This isn't my opinion, it's the opinion of an ex muslim terrorist (still a muslim). Of course my personal opinion is that when you start a bullshit whirlwind, don't be surprised if it gets out of control, but I don't think on a practical level, that opinion is going to achieve anything with someone who has already accepted that bullshit and just needs parts of the koran validating. Maybe this is an impossible task, I don't know. But I do think that a bit of work needs doing internally before they start their PR campaign.
Is it an accepted view that the more literally the koran or bible are followed, the more intolerant/undesirable the results tend to be?
At the end of the day Christians pick and choose which parts of the Bible to obey and which to dismiss just as much as Muslims do with the Koran. But funnily enough I don't hear many people (other than Christian fundamentalists themselves) complaining that the great majority of Christians in the world are not Christians at all.
Frankly I find the argument that it is okay to do so with the Bible because it was not the literal word of God as laughable as it is incorrect. Christian fundamentalists certainly don't think that is the case.
Indeed, many non-fundamentalist Christians who choose to discriminate against homosexuals are happy to use a single versicle from the Bible to justify their bigotry- apparently that one really came from God- while dismissing others as stories written by man.
If Christians can pick and choose with parts of their holy book to observe and still be Christians, so can Muslims. There are no two ways about it.
Is there any part of the Qur'an or any hadith that says this? Has there been any fatwa issued to that effect? Is there any school of Islam which allows muslims to decide as individuals which parts they should apply, and which they should ignore?
I know many Muslims who drink alcohol... but you won't find a single Muslim who thinks that drinking alcohol is ok in Islam.
Even all of the 'Muslims' who drink alcohol will admit that they are sinning.
The same way, you won't find a single Muslim who thinks that it is ok to pick and choose which parts of the Quran to follow, and reject certain teachings.
Because in Islam, you simply cannot believe that.
That way you can also show them the error of their ways and tell them that instead of being friends with infidels like me they sould be cutting my throat before they can call themselves Muslims.
They really need telling I think. Nothing worse than living a lie, as they apparently have been all their lives.
Sigh. I can show you Catholics who use condoms, would that prove that the dogma of the Catholic church allows the use of artificial contraception? Would it be any kind of a response to someone who criticises the Vatican for propagandizing against condom use across sub-Saharan Africa amidst a HIV pandemic?
The subject of this thread is whether or not Islam is a peaceful ideology. My opinion is no, it is not. And that opinion is based on the sword verses in the Qur'an. If your refutation is that Islam allows its followers to ignore those verses, then please show me that from an Islamic source. Where does it say that in the Qur'an or ahadith? Which imam or scholar says this?
The vast majority of Muslims are living in ignorance, or in a deep state of denial.
The only Muslims who do reject verses are essentially apostates (like myself).
.
... and understand why I can still have the opinion that I have regarding Islam.
So?
In Christianity sex before marriage is still a sin and people still do it. Just because somebody is not a fundementalist does not mean that they don't follow the religion. If you're a Christian, you're supposed to believe in the Bible and what God says. But a lot of people have different takes on the Bible, as with any othe literary source.
It's up to individual people whether they want to self define as Muslim,Christian, Jew or the kitchen sink... Not up to you.
Every religion has it's shitty parts, but every religion has beautiful parts too. As with anything in life, it's better for us to look for the good in people than the evil...
Aladdin, you keep on harking back to Old Testament! Surely you are better informed than this unless you are being purposely belligerent because you are so anti religious? You statements show a complete lack of understanding of Christianity. Once again I ask you, show me the texts, in context, in the New Testament that encourage hate and violence please.
I find hell quite a violent place. It is the new testament that has resulted in people telling kids that they are going to burn in agony for all eternity (and don't pretend a child understands that it's supposed to be taken metaphorically). That's sicker and has caused more psychological damage than anything that appears in the old testament.
Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)
- On slavery
Colossians 3:18 Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
1 Peter 3:1 Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives.
1 Corinthians 11:3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
1 Corinthians 14:34-35 Let women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.
- on women's rights.
Romans 1:26-27 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence [sic] of their error which was meet.
1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
- on homosexuality