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thats so gay
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This place has to remain accessible to vunerable young people that's all said. It's an advice board where you are a guest, where you should be mindful of what you say. Not a place to come and stroke your ego. Was just pointing that out
It's naive not to be able to invisage a situation where somebody may feel that the only route left is to take their own life.
Where did I say that? You're off your rocker.
Course it's not the right thing to do, but that's not to say you shouldn't feel sympathy for those that do.
Where was anyone stroking their ego? I stated my opinion. Does that mean anyone else who posted in this thread is also stroking their ego?
I was giving you a sample of your own logic. I know you didn't mean to imply that, but as you're quite fond of twisting statements to mean other things, I figured I'd show you what it's like. But I very well could make a case that you stating their are viable reasons for suicide is implication that it's okay. But I know you didn't mean that.
god, that's so gay.
No, it's not a bad thing to have to strength to keep going - that's totally different from saying you have no compassion for someone who commits suicide. Some people do it because they can't cope with life and are convinced they never will, others because they've simply lived their life and had enough of this world. I don't see why someone taking that choice should be criticised as weak or somehow worthy of derision, unless you're coming from some fucked up religious perspective.
http://www.suicide.org/suicide-causes.html
I don't think suicide should be vilified, per se. I just don't see why so many people choose to focus on those who are already dead than on those who are continuing to struggle. I've noticed that there is suddenly more sympathy for these people after they're dead. When someone commits suicide, suddenly everyone and their brother stands up for the cause (for about a week) and claims to have been their best friend and talks about how horrible it is that this has to happen to anyone. When they're alive, fewer people stand up to say anything.
See, this is what I mean. I never said criticize or deride anyone. I said I don't have compassion for people who commit suicide. A =/= B. Think of it like positive reinforcement parenting for those who manage to stand their ground.
ja, mate, because they said that they have "no compassion" when it comes to suicide, right?
look, take it from someone who's considered suicide, it's pussy-footed way to deal with life. 90% of people who threaten it do it for the attention and the other 10% of them who actually (sometimes unsuccessfully, and don'tcha think that's for a reason?) commit to the act are supposed to approved and considered symbols?
okay, so, symbolism is what you're getting at? so, hitler wanted to better his country, so he decided to kill all the jews so that he may disperse the money away from the greedy bastards and into his country. I think that's pretty symbolic, but does it make it right? does it mean we should sympathize with hitler for genodicing a group of people because he's symbolic?
totally, dude, because he was a symbol. he had posters and shit, he must have been right.
wrong.
If they're old and are happy with their life and would rather die on their own terms than be confined to a hospital bed later on, there's no need for sympathy because they're doing it for an entirely different reason. I can respect that. I don't want to get old and bedridden and dependent on other people to feed me and change me, either.
I understand having problems you don't think you can cope with. I understand feeling like you can't control your own mind, your own emotion, and how hard it can be to cope sometimes. I don't criticize those who choose to end their lives, I just don't treat them like they're somehow special for it. I wish they wouldn't blind themselves to the reality that they can get through it, that they're capable. I wish people wouldn't act like suicide is an acceptable treatment for depression. I wish those contemplating suicide could see what I see, could see that life is beautiful, something to be treasured and not thrown away over things that we can overcome. I think taking the "easy way out" is the wrong thing to do, although I'm hardly going to spit on their grave or anything.
Even when youve got gay people here saying they actually DO find it offensive, im really surprised at the attitude of "oh well, fuck you then" from some people, as though its a BIG ASK to modify your language just a little to make it less offensive to an already marginalised group
I'm sorry for raising the issue of suicides, it was done badly and is a leap from the starting point of the thread, but I was surprised as SCC says at the fact that so many people just don't give a shit that it makes people's lives difficult. Particularly when they're young, gay people are very sensitive to language and indicators of how people will respond to them. There is a lot of a casual homophobia around and most of it goes unchallenged - look at the many times Chris Moyles has been excused for making hideous jokes about gay men.
There is some evidence that violence against the gay community is increasing in the UK (although this may reflect increased reporting, no one's entirely sure) and anecdotally I'm beginning to hear of people in areas they've lived undisturbed for years suddenly being abused and threatened.
With all of this in mind, it really does upset me that people can perceive it as 'just another word' and carry on. I'm sorry it made me lash out slightly emotionally.
Seconded.
The desperately sad thing is that sexual identity should be such non-issue - just one of myriad of, potentially uninteresting, things that person is.
should be, but isnt. Just because it should be, doesnt mean we should ignore the reality, or make it worse by attaching very negative connotations to it, or going along with it blithely when others do.
I haven't suggested or condoned any of those things.
I don't advocate anyone commit suicide, being there myself because, well I'm gay. It's not nice growing up, being confused, being made to hate yourself because that is all you hear. When you come from a family with little to none gay family members (I know all of 2 who are "out", from my massive family) you have no one to tell you that people in this world DO care. I never heard people caring for the rights and happiness of gay people when I was growing up in secondary school. I'd always hear gay slurs being passed around to people in offensive manners (this never bothered me much at the time, but it does knowing just how homophobic these people really are now we're older) and nothing was being done about it. It was fine. [different more indepth thing though.]
The more I was learning in the world, specially in politics and religion, I just saw more hatred towards homosexuals. No one, gay or not, can understand how that feels. It's a feeling you have personally. I agree that I wouldn't normally sympathize for someone who commited suicide, but I wouldn't say the same thing now. You cannot just say to a gay person who is thinking about it "life's hard, get a helmet". When you have religion, governments, your schools, even possibly your work place full of hatred all around you, even having the power to decide your life, remove your rights, and hate you for this one thing, even going to the lengths of killing you - that is not a time to just tell them to grow a pair of balls and get on with things. I don't even know how you can say something like that.
Thanks for reminding us why you started this thread Suzy, I'm going to close it now as I think it's gone way for off what you intended and I think words need to be had with some people before such a topic is continued.
On another note, I personally find the issue of suicide incredibly interesting and complex regardless of links to homosexuality and if people were able to have a really honest and respectful debate about it then it could be really interesting. :chin: