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Umm, it's a foetus up until birth. Look it up. If you really really insist, I can call it a baby if you want. I can tell you that abortion aborts le baby, I can tell you all the mean ways the baby is aborted. Wow! Am I suddenly pro-'life'? I'm well versed on embryology, seen the 4D scanning techniques etc, it doesn't make any difference, the woman comes first. I just don't understand why people think the stance is going to change based on what a foetus can or can't do. It isn't about the foetus, it's about the woman's right to decide what is best for her.
Your ole grandaddy may have killed a couple of Nazi's in WW2, or wet himself on Waterloo station, but hey, that feotus could be another Ramone, or Dylan, or Lennon!!!!!! We need them man.
No, its your reality leaving your brain! Quick grab it before you head off into even more irrational thoughts.
"Silent scream" is an oxymoron, not a metaphor.
For the record, Jeremiah Ch 1 Vs 5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born i set you apart..."
Which is probably one of the key definative verses, among others, that is part of the basis for the christian value for life.
Fiend, this is a message board, not the UN. Using up my time to search through a big bok to find one quote just to satisfy your own ignorance is not gonna get me anywhere is it?
If I choose to find the quote I will, if I don't, I don't.
I don't HAVE to do anything,
Besides that fact, the Bible can made to say anything you want more or less. It contradicts itself constantly. Add to that it was written by MAN with their own agendas plus the fact your supposed to interpert the bible an dmake choices on it, not take the written word literally.
the bible argument is out of the abortion debate.
I dont know about others but to me it was you who sounded ignorant not Fiend.
Well the last bit "as far as I am concerned" is exactly the point I am making, it is a matter of opinion.
Incidentally, surely a baby once born cannot survive independently of its mother?
Yeah it can, it can be adopted.
For those who think the "woman's right to decide what is best for her" is paramount, do you agree with the practise in some parts of the world whereby girls are far more likely to be aborted than boys?
you never heard of adoption? or the mother dying in childbirth?
Eh? Hows that relevant?
completely different situations in completely different societies and social contexts
I think in countries and societies where if a foetus is found to be a girl it's likely to be aborted, the actual act of abortion is the least worrying thing.
yes, exactly
Not really, no. As with everything, its all about the social context. And as briggi says, in your scenario, abortion isn't really the issue anyway.
Because if the womans right is paramount then such practise should be condoned surely? If the woman wants to have a boy then aborting girls is right if it what is 'right for her'
Basically, are there limits on the choices the woman can make or do you support ANY choice she makes with reagrds to her foetus?
Being pro-choice doesn't mean you have to *like* the reasons for choices that other people make, for whatever reason, but I'd still support their decision to abort.
See the previous posts.
I agree that if we got to the stage where people are trying to abort babys based on sex, race or anything else, then we would need to address the underlying issues that cause people to make these desicions, but that doesn't alter the basic question at all.
I'm starting to feel a bit frustrated here. In these instances, I would advocate the woman's right to have an abortion for whatever reason. I don't necessarily think she should have to give one. However, in instances such as these it is the underlying social pressures and conditoning that are the burning issue. Harking back to earlier points about educating and understanding, we'd need to try and understand why these women had these convictions and educate them properly. But that is far easier said than done when there is (more likely than not) a Patriarchy leaning heavily on their shoulders. The issue there is not the abortions themselves, that's my take on it, I don't think I can make that point any clearer without my head exploding.
Rubbish. As with everything, its about the social context. The issue of abortion does not exist in a vacuum, it exists in a social and politcal context. Toadborg's assertion that "If the woman wants to have a boy then aborting girls is right if it what is 'right for her'" fails to take into account the social pressures that might lead a woman to thinking it is "right for her". Without taking any of that into account, its a meaningless argument (cue cries from klintock et al that "there is no such thing as society" :rolleyes: )
Yes, quite.
Walkindude, you lack credibility
and you lack reality.
also note that my other points on the bible were ignored.
Your biblical quote about God knowing us in the womb, simply refers to God being ominiscent and it might as well have said he knew us before the womb or even before anyone in the direct line was born.
The bible does not state catogorcialy that life begins at conception and nor does it condmen abortion. Life begins when the baby takes their first breathed outside the womb, referred to as bing "breathed into" in the bible.