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We also take what the mother 'wants' into account as well as her welfare, otherwise no babies would be born as, I think, abortion has a much lower mortality rate than labour...
Once I was trying to close my ears, but this snippet of information about rapist fathers having rights of access to their children snuck in there- anyone know if this is true somewhere?
This year, the UK looks set to have over 200,000 abortions carried out. The figure has rocketed over the years. 200,000 dead babies. And before anybody asks, yes, I do know of women who have had abortions. They describe the psychological effects. They describe wondering for their lives what could have been. Many regret what they choose to do. I've seen the bond between mother and child first hand. Abortion is treated far too lightly as an issue, and some redress to reflect the seriousness of this is long overdue.
We often hear about a "woman's right to choose", as if that were the only factor. Nothing is ever said about a "baby's right to live". If the controversial events in the USA can start influencing the debate about abortion here, then that can only be a thoroughly good thing.
Silent Scream...? Nope? No scream? Thought so.
So. You protect the right to live of something which cannot sustain its own life, yet if my cat required surgery to live it should be put down. Hell, my Grandfather couldn't support himself without machines, they put him down. Yet a feotus is somehow valued more - a feotus, which unlike my grandfather, contributed nothing to the world, and could KILL A LIVING, HEALTHY WOMAN, and it is valued more than said Woman.
Whats that I hear? Logic leaving the building?
And I'm going to clarify one thing here. I think abortion in some circumstances is warranted - for example, in the case of rape, incest and cases where the babies would be born with a very low chance of being able to live.
To the anti-choice, 1 abortion is too many.
So what? I'd rather 200,000 abortions than a single woman being forced to carry to term. I'd rather have 200,000 abortions than the 19 million women who currently undergo illegal abortion - 70,000 of whom will die.
So do I. I've also worked with hundreds who have chosen to terminate their pregnancies. For all the women I know who regret them, I know just as many who don't. Wonder does not equal regret. People who regret their abortions also tend to regret them because they were coerced, or had other issues which weren't to do with the abortion. I wonder how people would feel if they knew they had no choice but to continue the pregnancy.
Mother and wanted child? World of difference between that and an unwanted. Look up Romina Tejerina and tell me that everyone feels utmost joy upon seeing their infants if they're denied an abortion.
Well, it is.
What about it? There is no right to life for the foetus, nor should there be.
Yes, how dare those nasty women make choices for themselves regarding their reproductive systems.
Well, it's 11 times safer than childbirth. Maybe we should outlaw childbirth given all the risks that poses...
Umm, no, it ain't. It's still a criminal offence if it's not confined to the Abortion Act of 1967.
My foetus? I know it had been a while since my eyes were tested, but I'm sure there was some MVA action there. They also showed the sluice too.
And it's pro-choice. We respect the fact that some women want to gestate, others don't.
You're kidding, right?
It makes me furious when people assume abortion is something taken lightly by women who choose to have one. Just because they aren't defeated by the experience and wailing in public does not mean that they take it lightly.
Why? If you're going to push the notion of all these poor ickle babies being murdered, what does it matter about the how conception took place? A foetus conceived by rape is just as 'innocent' as one that wasn't. Show a little consistency at least; otherwise you're just a pro-choice-but
Depends on what helps their cause. Women are either nasty sluts who should have kept their legs closed, go skipping to the clinic and see it as nothing more than a tooth removed or poor innocent lost lambs, who don't really know what abortion *really* entails, and if they did, they wouldn't do it!
Calling a foetus innocent is about as relevant as calling it unemployed.
And you can't scream if there's no air in the lungs. I've assisted in D&E abortions under ultrasound - when the woman is under a general, so is the foetus, and no amount of poking at it makes any difference.
Dear me, clutch at straws much?
I am pro-life. The life of the woman. Illegal abortion kills and maims women. Just not the ones you care about.
:thumb:
Euthanasia talk is for another time, another thread. But, I never understand why people automatically group abortion and euthanasia together (still living in Year 10 RE perhaps?) as they're utterly utterly different subjects.
and many don't. whats your point?
I agree. Especially those who jump in all, "Woe is me! It's sooo hard to discuss abortion around all these liberals, and those who are so callous etc"
Give me a break. This ain't share your feelings around a campfire over marshmallow squares. If you want to go for the jugular because I corrected you on some of the basics, i.e. abortion in laws in this country, just try, but it only shows you up, not me.
Women die each day because people place more value on the foetus. Ever see an abdomen literally green and black due to sepsis? Seen a distended abdomen full of pus due to a botched abortion infection because they went through their cervix with a piece of wire covered with rubber? Seen a uterus full of pus and acid because they were told to douche with hydrocholric acid? Read the autopsy report of a girl who went to a 'doctor' who didn't know the difference between her vagina and anus and pulled out some of her bowels with her uterus? Wake up, this is what's happening - this is what the anti-choice want. Don't expect me to have any respect for that at all. My sympathies do not lie with the foetus - they're with the most important people of all - the women.
So yes, if I take the moral high ground because I believe women deserve better than that, so be it.
good response that
What makes you think it wouldn't be cared for or looked after?
I support Euthanasia - The Volutary right to die. I am allowed the right to life - yet why, if I am dieing of Cancer, cannot I not chose to die? All it takes is one doctor to inject me with a syringe full of Morphine, and months of Agony, for me, and my family, are spared. I have seen the effects of Cancer first hand. My Family has suffered with, my Grandad and Aunty. (Note: They both worked on a US Airbsae that Had Nuclear Weapons during the Cold War. Hmm.) It's a terrible disease. And so amny patients have said they would like to end it soon. Yet, they are not allowed control, over THEIR OWN LIFE.
Same with Altzheimers. Whilst many have still had some capability of rational thought and control, they wish to prevent it going furthur - yet are not allowed. Why... it is their life?
Euthanasia is a separate issue to abortion and while there are circumstances where it’s a tempting option legalised euthanasia would have a damaging impact on society.
It contradicts the Hippocratic Oath, it would give doctors an unwanted additional responsibility – that would massively extend their powers and leave medical professionals vulnerable to all kinds of accusations of abuse. Administered by anybody other than doctors and there is a great scope for misuse of euthanasia. The impact of acceptable euthanasia would be extremely negative. Already, some elderly people that feel they’re a burden on their families commit suicide – with euthanasia an acceptable thing there’s a real danger there. And inevitably people would get pressured into euthanasia by family eager to get their inheritance – relatives telling people ‘it’s for the best’.
People that don’t want to die – and want to live could end up feeling a burden; in hospitals to the NHS and in society as a whole, life could become less valuable with less respect being shown to people with the diseases that you describe. Despite honourable intentions the line between voluntary euthanasia and involuntary euthanasia can also become extremely blurred – the latter while perhaps not always cold-blooded murder is a feasible result from the slippery slope that starts with voluntary euthanasia and could eventually leave us eventually with something akin to the euthanasia programme of the Nazis.
What baby?
I think he has at some point assumed an Feotus is a Baby.
So, when we eat an Egg, we are actually Eating a Chicken you know! And when you tuck into some Caviar, you are actually eating Fish!
It's a bit like saying children aren't human because they aren't adults, or that puppies aren't dogs or something. Very odd. Of course, dehumanising those you are going to injure is nothing new.
Just don't try to limit (let alone block) the right for women to have abortions based on such beliefs.