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Religious people know they are full of shit.

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote:
    I do not think there are profound differences between different religions. You are looking into what I would call the details, whilst I am looking at a broad overview. So, whilst I can see and acknowledge the differences you note, some of which you detail below, I find that these diferences are from within a structure that encompasses all religions thereby making them similar and me labelling them all pointless and ridiculous similarly. The similarities, the elements I find ridiculous and pointless, include but aren't limited to: the notion of a 'god' and any human/written messenger thereof, a 'soul', an 'afterlife', etcetera et-ungodly-thinking-wench-cetera etcetera...
    Of course there are differences... Religion is basically a kind of philosophy (in my eyes) that deals with metaphysics. I don't actually understand what you mean by a "structure that encompasses all religions" unless you mean that a lot of ideas reoccur in different religion. I don't see why the idea of having a soul is ridiculous... Or how religion is pointless. If people for example believe that every living creature has a soul then wouldn't it help them to respect life? Reguardless as to whether or not we can prove the soul exists (we cannot prove for or against the notion), is the concept not going to work for the greater good?

    You seem to forget that a lot of culture is built upon religion too. A lot of works of art, the fact we -are supposed to have- Sunday off work (although Saturday is the true Sabbath), law and so on.

    Not to mention a lot of psychology (cognitive I think) is heavily influenced by Buddhism.

    Have only read a couple of pages about, and only since you mentioned them. They do seem to have the elements I find 'pointless and ridiculous' but I haven't found any reason to believe that any followers would be inclined to opress others violently... Probably harmless? I do like the bit about everyone speaking to the same god though, as an image of thousands of different gods that differing religions praying to, sitting around on clouds in the sky, has often amused me.
    I think what you are saying is "religion is pointless and ridiculous because I don't believe in God myself".

    As for being harmless, it does seem like a peaceful religion, but humans still have the potential to do harm whatever their spiritual path (why did you say Quakers aren't pacifist before?).

    Your own point about the hypocrasy of tolerance displayed in their treatment/beliefs regarding homosexuality confirms that the religion is ridiculous. (for me anyway)
    Nah, life is full of double standards. They think the physical act of homosexuality is wrong, you think their beliefs are ridiculous... Does that make you intolerent and ridiculous too? :p

    Oh moonrat of little faith...
    A lot of people on these boards don't like to be mentally challenged, they just like to throw insults.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A lot of people on these boards don't like to be mentally challenged, they just like to throw insults.

    You`ve noticed as well ? ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rolly!

    There is a certain amount of unavoidable indirect tax. Given that it's theft, I feel it in my best interests to claim it back in any way I am able. ;)

    The wonderful people in government are also make steps to bleed my profession dry in their usual manner - via licencing and regulation and all the usual bullshit they pull.

    The body language thing is pretty easy to do. All memories are stored as sensory information, you can watch people to see where they keep various pictures, how they respond to things they are hearing internally etc etc.

    If I have someone who's eyes dilate as though they are looking at something that is a few feet in front of them and a foot above (for example) when they think of things they know not to be true and then they look at the same spot when a new topic is raised, it's not a difficult jump to make. To then use conversation to check this assumption is the smart thing to do.

    Requires you pay attention to them really close, of course.

    FOr my own point of view, of course it requires me to eventually pick up weapons to stop those who don't agree. Given that all I want is for other people to NOT pick up weapons then I would only do so once they already had, which few people disagree with, ime.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Rolly!

    There is a certain amount of unavoidable indirect tax. Given that it's theft, I feel it in my best interests to claim it back in any way I am able. ;)


    FOr my own point of view, of course it requires me to eventually pick up weapons to stop those who don't agree. .
    klint me old china ...i have been doing paper work for a bleedin' week for the tax men ...has to be in by june ...fat chance ...so yes they will be round threatenening me soon enough.


    mods ...HELP!
    HE'S THREATENING ME WITH VIOLENCE NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Of course there are differences...
    Yes, I agreed that there were differences.
    Religion is basically a kind of philosophy (in my eyes) that deals with metaphysics.
    As are other positions, including non-religious ones, in trying to understand reality.
    I don't actually understand what you mean by a "structure that encompasses all religions" unless you mean that a lot of ideas reoccur in different religion.
    Yes, that is what I meant, I included a few examples of the ideas that appear to recur in religions.
    I don't see why the idea of having a soul is ridiculous... Or how religion is pointless. If people for example believe that every living creature has a soul then wouldn't it help them to respect life? Reguardless as to whether or not we can prove the soul exists (we cannot prove for or against the notion), is the concept not going to work for the greater good?
    Religion seems an extraneous 'middle-man' if the aim is to respect life and/or work for greater good; as these aims do not require religion, having a religion for these purposes can be seen as a waste of mental energy.
    You seem to forget that a lot of culture is built upon religion too. A lot of works of art, the fact we -are supposed to have- Sunday off work (although Saturday is the true Sabbath), law and so on.
    What gives you that idea? I am aware of links between religion and culture.
    Not to mention a lot of psychology (cognitive I think) is heavily influenced by Buddhism.
    I didn't know that, but the knowledge doesn't change my viewpoint.
    I think what you are saying is "religion is pointless and ridiculous because I don't believe in God myself".
    No, that's not it. I think it's pointless because even where we see religion being used for positive purposes, the religion itself is unnecessary for the end result.
    As for being harmless, it does seem like a peaceful religion, but humans still have the potential to do harm whatever their spiritual path (why did you say Quakers aren't pacifist before?).
    I said that not all Quakers are/were pacifists because it is not strictly true to say that Quakers are pacifists when not all Quakers are/were and, though it may be the norm, pacifism is not mandatory.
    Nah, life is full of double standards. They think the physical act of homosexuality is wrong, you think their beliefs are ridiculous... Does that make you intolerent and ridiculous too? :p
    A lot of people on these boards don't like to be mentally challenged, they just like to throw insults.
    :yeees:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote:
    As are other positions, including non-religious ones, in trying to understand reality.




    :
    I FIND THE BEST WAY TO UNDERSTAND MY REALITY Oops ...is to step away from it now again and look at it from afar.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes, and to get other perspectives, especially when it is possible that there is something you/one/I have missed that another can provide enlightenment on... That's why the discussion is interesting init :D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Good lord Rolly. Just ask them the damn questions already.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    . Just ask them the damn questions already.
    i have my own way of dealing with these things ...good old fashioned dishonesty.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So uhm... since when was faith a matter of intelligence?

    Pretty much don't know about that one...

    Since when was it all about proof?

    Pretty much don't know about that one either... Hence the word 'faith'.

    So, this one guy believes that God created the world and came from nothing.
    Then this other guy believes the world came from the big bang that came from nothing.
    It's a matter of which one he believes to be the way it happened.

    There's this girl who thinks that God created all the animals and stuff. But there's this other girl who thinks that all the animals evolved.
    There evidence enough for both. Neither is fact. They're both just a hypothesis.

    So... where does proof come into this?
    Nothing is going to be decided that way.

    Faith is not a science.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :D :thumb:


    Good on you Rolly.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    IWishIWas wrote:
    So uhm... since when was faith a matter of intelligence?

    Pretty much don't know about that one...

    Since when was it all about proof?

    Pretty much don't know about that one either... Hence the word 'faith'.

    So, this one guy believes that God created the world and came from nothing.
    Then this other guy believes the world came from the big bang that came from nothing.
    It's a matter of which one he believes to be the way it happened.

    There's this girl who thinks that God created all the animals and stuff. But there's this other girl who thinks that all the animals evolved.
    There evidence enough for both. Neither is fact. They're both just a hypothesis.

    So... where does proof come into this?
    Nothing is going to be decided that way.

    Faith is not a science.
    your far to sensible for this place ...hello good evening and welcome.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    your far to sensible for this place ...hello good evening and welcome.

    Tee hee hee! I wish that really were the case.

    Hello. Good evening. And thank you.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    IWishIWas wrote:
    So... where does proof come into this?
    Nothing is going to be decided that way.

    Faith is not a science.

    Don`t jump to conclusions so quickly.Take a look at this:

    http://www.devilducky.com/media/44860/

    Is it not proof enough for you ?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Rolly!

    There is a certain amount of unavoidable indirect tax. Given that it's theft, I feel it in my best interests to claim it back in any way I am able. ;)

    The wonderful people in government are also make steps to bleed my profession dry in their usual manner - via licencing and regulation and all the usual bullshit they pull.

    The body language thing is pretty easy to do. All memories are stored as sensory information, you can watch people to see where they keep various pictures, how they respond to things they are hearing internally etc etc.

    If I have someone who's eyes dilate as though they are looking at something that is a few feet in front of them and a foot above (for example) when they think of things they know not to be true and then they look at the same spot when a new topic is raised, it's not a difficult jump to make. To then use conversation to check this assumption is the smart thing to do.

    Requires you pay attention to them really close, of course.

    FOr my own point of view, of course it requires me to eventually pick up weapons to stop those who don't agree. Given that all I want is for other people to NOT pick up weapons then I would only do so once they already had, which few people disagree with, ime.
    still just a very complicated way of saying "i can read body language".
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Rolly!

    There is a certain amount of unavoidable indirect tax. Given that it's theft, I feel it in my best interests to claim it back in any way I am able. ;)

    The wonderful people in government are also make steps to bleed my profession dry in their usual manner - via licencing and regulation and all the usual bullshit they pull.

    The body language thing is pretty easy to do. All memories are stored as sensory information, you can watch people to see where they keep various pictures, how they respond to things they are hearing internally etc etc.

    If I have someone who's eyes dilate as though they are looking at something that is a few feet in front of them and a foot above (for example) when they think of things they know not to be true and then they look at the same spot when a new topic is raised, it's not a difficult jump to make. To then use conversation to check this assumption is the smart thing to do.

    Requires you pay attention to them really close, of course.

    FOr my own point of view, of course it requires me to eventually pick up weapons to stop those who don't agree. Given that all I want is for other people to NOT pick up weapons then I would only do so once they already had, which few people disagree with, ime.

    You watch too much Trisha, that's what the guy says on TV. Either that or you read it in NLP or whatever it is that you're in to.

    I find it funny... Because until a few weeks ago I never realised I didn't use body language (I'm dyspraxia), so I'm trying to learn now. I don't think your body language ideas could be used on somebody with Aspergers either.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    seeker wrote:
    Don`t jump to conclusions so quickly.Take a look at this:

    http://www.devilducky.com/media/44860/

    Is it not proof enough for you ?


    I could have given screeds of examples if I wanted to... but I chose not to, simply because I'm doing my best to seem on no one's side. The moment I do... I have people jumping down my throats. And right now, I just can't be bothered with that.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Moonrat.

    My ""body language stuff" works with everyone. An inability to read other peoples body language does not equate to non transmission of your own.

    What colour is your front door?

    What does it sound like when it slams shut?

    How does it feel under your fingers?

    If you answer that set of questions without shifts in your eyes, breathing or posture you must be strapped down or drugged out of your eyeballs.

    You can't read bodylanguage for "people" either, only for a person. Jim's body language isn't John's.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Moonrat.

    My ""body language stuff" works with everyone. An inability to read other peoples body language does not equate to non transmission of your own.

    What colour is your front door?

    What does it sound like when it slams shut?

    How does it feel under your fingers?

    If you answer that set of questions without shifts in your eyes, breathing or posture you must be strapped down or drugged out of your eyeballs.

    You can't read bodylanguage for "people" either, only for a person. Jim's body language isn't John's.

    No it isn't... People with Aspergers have completely different body language, so do individuals with ADD and dyspraxia. For example the eyes, some people with learning disabilities, hidden disabilities and so on do not make eye contact the same way "normal" people do... Depending on where you come from in the world also affects body language.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No it isn't... People with Aspergers have completely different body language, so do individuals with ADD and dyspraxia. For example the eyes, some people with learning disabilities, hidden disabilities and so on do not make eye contact the same way "normal" people do... Depending on where you come from in the world also affects body language.
    i agree with you moon ...my wife works with asperger kids and hadd or whatever it's called.
    i've met some of these kids ...the body lnguage is completely abscent in most of them.
    they will talk about a joyous birthday party exactly as they talk about a very distressing event ...eyes and all.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    good tricksters and conmen are brilliant at hiding body language and also in sending out false body language.
    they are brilliant at reading it as well.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes, you have individual body language, unique to you.

    It will still have repeatable patterns, the same as everyone else's.

    Brilliant conmen etc all can fake bodylanguage, up to the moment that you mention something they haven't rehearsed, then they are stuck. You can only fake body language by either believing your own shit (as in most people will give off "honest" signals if they think something is true that isn't) or rehearsing it.

    Anyway, religious people I have met have either not rehgearsed or don't believe their own shit or both.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Is religious faith about "body langauge"? Isn't it more to do with inner belief regardless of what the physical body may or may not reveal?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As there is no "inner faith" and people are only in existence in the physical world, then no, not really.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Yes, you have individual body language, unique to you.

    It will still have repeatable patterns, the same as everyone else's.

    Brilliant conmen etc all can fake bodylanguage, up to the moment that you mention something they haven't rehearsed, then they are stuck. You can only fake body language by either believing your own shit (as in most people will give off "honest" signals if they think something is true that isn't) or rehearsing it.

    Anyway, religious people I have met have either not rehgearsed or don't believe their own shit or both.
    good conmen don't rehearse!
    it comes very naturaly to them.
    and have you ever actualy dealt with someone or even met anyone with aspergers ...i think not.
    they mostly give out as much body language as a fence post.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah, they do, Mr. Roll.

    They just do it on the fly. You can watch them do it. While the current line of bullshit is being spun, the next one is being formulated. Nice and interruptible it is too.

    The lack of response to "normal" events isn't a lack of structure in thought and action. You've even noticed the structure of it yourself and told me about it. The fact that it's not "normal" is throwing your thinking off.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    As there is no "inner faith" and people are only in existence in the physical world, then no, not really.
    A person's beliefs are not physical they are part of his/her consciousness.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Yeah, they do, Mr. Roll.

    They just do it on the fly. You can watch them do it. While the current line of bullshit is being spun, the next one is being formulated. Nice and interruptible it is too.

    The lack of response to "normal" events isn't a lack of structure in thought and action. You've even noticed the structure of it yourself and told me about it. The fact that it's not "normal" is throwing your thinking off.

    I'm beginning to think that maybe you haven't met the right bunch of people! If this is your view, then you're encounters with 'religious' people may just have not been genuine ones!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    IWishIWas wrote:
    I'm beginning to think that maybe you haven't met the right bunch of people! If this is your view, then you're encounters with 'religious' people may just have not been genuine ones!
    we all see and understand things differently cos ...we arre ALL ...varying stages away from crazy ...with our habbits and foibles ...klint appears to be strangely strange but oddly normal.
    the strange is he believes what he says or sees to be THE ...normal!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    As there is no "inner faith" and people are only in existence in the physical world, then no, not really.
    Prove it
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