Religious people know they are full of shit.

Former Member

nihilisticmadman wrote:

evil = devil = satanism = religion

source?

Former Member

-[MoonRat]- wrote:

Thankyou, but I was brought up a Protestant and I'm sorry but there is nothing evil about it. Calling religion a 'form of evil' makes you no better than the fundementalists themselves who also believe in absolute good and evil. Plus what you are saying is condescending. Just because some people are brought up with a Christian family does NOT make anybody stupid, nor does it make them evil.

There are nice people and not so nice people out there and religion just so happens to be a handy tool for the powerful to manipulate people. There is beauty in every religion, every belief system has its own strong points and weak points, you can't tar all people with the same brush just because of who they worship because that is little beter than racism.

And as a result: personal religion = fine, organised religion = bad (despite usually having good intentions).

Former Member

I'm With Stupid wrote:

And as a result: personal religion = fine, organised religion = bad (despite usually having good intentions).

I disagree...

If somebody for example goes out and beats up a gay man, does it make the act any different if they did it in the name of religion or out of pure hatred?

I know people who go to the Evangelical Church and who're perfectly nice. It is just that some people use religion as an excuse for their actions, just as non-relgious people would look for other excuses.

Again, saying organised religion is 'bad' is doing what people are claiming they do.. Creating an 'us' and 'them' way of thinking... Branding things as 'good' and 'evil'.

The minute we differentiate between ourselves and other groups of society that we don't fully understand we dehumanise them or place them beneath us.

Former Member

-[MoonRat]- wrote:

I disagree...

So do I

If somebody for example goes out and beats up a gay man, does it make the act any different if they did it in the name of religion or out of pure hatred?

No - saying something like 'God told/made me do it' doesn't make it right. The person who beat this gay person up is still responsible for their actions.

I know people who go to the Evangelical Church and who're perfectly nice. It is just that some people use religion as an excuse for their actions, just as non-relgious people would look for other excuses.

Agreed. I know a few religious people who are nice as well.

The minute we differentiate between ourselves and other groups of society that we don't fully understand we dehumanise them or place them beneath us.

Agreed

Former Member

Sofie wrote:

source?

wikipedia...

Former Member

-[MoonRat]- wrote:

I disagree...

If somebody for example goes out and beats up a gay man, does it make the act any different if they did it in the name of religion or out of pure hatred?

I know people who go to the Evangelical Church and who're perfectly nice. It is just that some people use religion as an excuse for their actions, just as non-relgious people would look for other excuses.

Again, saying organised religion is 'bad' is doing what people are claiming they do.. Creating an 'us' and 'them' way of thinking... Branding things as 'good' and 'evil'.

The minute we differentiate between ourselves and other groups of society that we don't fully understand we dehumanise them or place them beneath us.

I don't mean that people involved in organised religion are necessarily bad, just that the system itself is. It is a method of controlling people and causes the us and them attitude that you mentioned in the same way that nationality or race does. If everyone dispensed with the labels that organised religion gave them, then maybe people would actually listen to each other rather than dismiss anything that someone says because they are from the x, y or z religion.

Former Member

nihilisticmadman wrote:

wikipedia...

That website is rubbish. You do realise that anyone can put any old crap on there that may not be true?

Former Member

Sofie wrote:

That website is rubbish. You do realise that anyone can put any old crap on there that may not be true?

who do you think came up with a term evil tho... I just checked on there otherwise my sources are my logic... religious people have created that word to represent sins and act of the devil... evil is a term that is as religious as god, satan, heaven and hell... it's just so logic... never wonder why the words devil and evil are so damn close...

Former Member

I'm With Stupid wrote:

I don't mean that people involved in organised religion are necessarily bad, just that the system itself is. It is a method of controlling people and causes the us and them attitude that you mentioned in the same way that nationality or race does. If everyone dispensed with the labels that organised religion gave them, then maybe people would actually listen to each other rather than dismiss anything that someone says because they are from the x, y or z religion.

But then what doesn't create labels? Consumer culture tells us what to wear to befashionable, thus you are either fashionable or you are not. If you are fashionable then you fit in, you are successful. People won't listen to each other because they believe what they are told. How do we know that a table is not really a frog? How do we know that mental illness exists? How do we know that any of what we call science is true?

It is because it is what we are told, therefor it becoes reality for us. I agree with you that we need to listen, but labels are often a part of our identity and our security. The church has a lot too offer too, it can become like a family.

Former Member

-[MoonRat]- wrote:

But then what doesn't create labels? Consumer culture tells us what to wear to befashionable, thus you are either fashionable or you are not. If you are fashionable then you fit in, you are successful. People won't listen to each other because they believe what they are told. How do we know that a table is not really a frog? How do we know that mental illness exists? How do we know that any of what we call science is true?

The only similarity between science and religion though, is that they both try to explain the unexplained. There is no morality in science. It doesn't try to tell anyone how to live their life, and therefore cannot be used to oppress people. It only makes observations, it doesn't follow them up with judgements. No-one forces you to believe science, but with religion the attitude is "live your life like this, or burn in hell for all eternity" which is a pretty scary prospect if you are brought up to believe in it. Individual religion is different, because it's about making your own judgements as to what is right and wrong, not having it dictated to you.

Former Member

I'm With Stupid wrote:

The only similarity between science and religion though, is that they both try to explain the unexplained. There is no morality in science. It doesn't try to tell anyone how to live their life, and therefore cannot be used to oppress people. It only makes observations, it doesn't follow them up with judgements. No-one forces you to believe science, but with religion the attitude is "live your life like this, or burn in hell for all eternity" which is a pretty scary prospect if you are brought up to believe in it. Individual religion is different, because it's about making your own judgements as to what is right and wrong, not having it dictated to you.

What about eugenics? That could be used to oppress people.

Former Member

-[MoonRat]- wrote:

What about eugenics? That could be used to oppress people.

Yes it could (and has), as could many other things based in scientific fact. But unlike religion, you will never find science making that judgement for you. All science does is present you with the facts as they are scientifically understood. It is then up to the individual's moral code (i.e. religion) to decide what to do with these facts.

Former Member

nihilisticmadman wrote:

it's just so logic... never wonder why the words devil and evil are so damn close...

with such flawed logic that makes santa and satan one and the same.

Former Member

nihilisticmadman wrote:

religious people have created that word to represent sins and act of the devil... ...

what utter bollox!
the WORD ... satan ...simply means deciever.
the WORD ...devil ...simply means opposer.

Former Member

morrocan roll wrote:

with such flawed logic that makes santa and satan one and the same.

maybe they are... they both wear a lot of red..

Former Member

morrocan roll wrote:

what utter bollox!
the WORD ... satan ...simply means deciever.
the WORD ...devil ...simply means opposer.

ok... was talking about the word evil but anyway.... and the origin of it... not its modern meaning...

Former Member

nihilisticmadman wrote:

ok... was talking about the word evil but anyway.... and the origin of it... not its modern meaning...

so please show me where you discovered the word evil was invented by religous people.

Former Member

morrocan roll wrote:

so please show me where you discovered the word evil was invented by religous people.

Well can really post my nun-teachers from the catholic school my parents send me too but this link http://www.answers.com/topic/evil is quite interestng...

Former Member

nihilisticmadman wrote:

Well can really post my nun-teachers from the catholic school my parents send me too but this link http://www.answers.com/topic/evil is quite interestng...

e·vil (ē'vəl)
adj., e·vil·er, e·vil·est.
Morally bad or wrong; wicked: an evil tyrant.
Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful: the evil effects of a poor diet.
Characterized by or indicating future misfortune; ominous: evil omens.
Bad or blameworthy by report; infamous: an evil reputation.
Characterized by anger or spite; malicious: an evil temper.
n.
The quality of being morally bad or wrong; wickedness.
That which causes harm, misfortune, or destruction: a leader's power to do both good and evil.
An evil force, power, or personification.
Something that is a cause or source of suffering, injury, or destruction: the social evils of poverty and injustice.


not exactly full of religous refferences is it.

Former Member

morrocan roll wrote:

e·vil (ē'vəl)
adj., e·vil·er, e·vil·est.
Morally bad or wrong; wicked: an evil tyrant.
Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful: the evil effects of a poor diet.
Characterized by or indicating future misfortune; ominous: evil omens.
Bad or blameworthy by report; infamous: an evil reputation.
Characterized by anger or spite; malicious: an evil temper.
n.
The quality of being morally bad or wrong; wickedness.
That which causes harm, misfortune, or destruction: a leader's power to do both good and evil.
An evil force, power, or personification.
Something that is a cause or source of suffering, injury, or destruction: the social evils of poverty and injustice.


not exactly full of religous refferences is it.

origin of a word is not really the same as it's modern meaning...

Former Member

nihilisticmadman wrote:

origin of a word is not really the same as it's modern meaning...

you've lost me mate.

Former Member

morrocan roll wrote:

you've lost me mate.

bah... who cares anyway... imo any belief can be interpreted as a religion...

Former Member

nihilisticmadman wrote:

bah... who cares anyway... imo any belief can be interpreted as a religion...

well i believe my car is parked outside ...what religion do i belong to?

Former Member

morrocan roll wrote:

well i believe my car is parked outside ...what religion do i belong to?

depends on what defnition of belief we use there... in a way your religion is too believe in yourself... and in what you believe is true...

Former Member

nihilisticmadman wrote:

depends on what defnition of belief we use there... in a way your religion is too believe in yourself... and in what you believe is true...

does believing in ,myself make me ...a nihilistic madman

Former Member

morrocan roll wrote:

does believing in ,myself make me ...a nihilistic madman

lol... maybe... if you believe so... then it is so...

Former Member

There are different degrees of religious nuttery. Some religious people can be quite reasonable.

Check out this woman though...

religious nutter

Former Member

groovechampion wrote:

There are different degrees of religious nuttery. Some religious people can be quite reasonable.

Check out this woman though...

religious nutter

I'd love to see her get AIDS, "Thank God I've got AIDS"

Former Member

Teach her to jump burning pews and PT Barnum's Ringling Bros. Circus might just have a slot for her!

Former Member

Just clicked that link. I'm about half way through, but I'm loving Fox News right now. "You're obviously a nut." Great reporting.