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Yes, I'm perfectly aware that there are some amazing American people - I've met a few myself - there are also Americans who share my criticisms of the USG and who find Bush as scary as the rest of us do. You will struggle to find anyone on these threads who supports Blair, and that doesn't mean the Brits hate themselves - just that our government is crap.
I did read that thread and I don't see anyone attacking the American people - if any post got close to it, it was on the God Bless America thread.
I'm still trying to work out what you mean by "these people" - its almost as if you're lumping us all together as if we're the same - and actually theres a broad range of opinions on the forum. I disagree with much that the majority of posters say.
I think you're over-sensitive - and that you have a very conservative agenda.
but you think it is wrong for me to be repulsed by the politics that have taken over this great country and people?
As far as my "These people" thing - perhaps it was the wrong choice of words on my part...... I don't mean lump everyone together.
As far as me being an over-sensitive person, well, the only thing I can say to that is that I absolutely am not. The only reason I might be viewed as being sensative is because I try to stand up for what I believe and I don't appreiciate it when others try and put down my beliefs or opinions - I try not to do that to other people. I call that being "nice".
Conservative, yes I am...... on some topics/others I am not.
im not denying the uk has problems, but corporations seem to be much more ingrained into american society than british, american vlaues often seem to me, i could be wrong, but i get the impression that they are hamburgers/hotdogs/war or killing things if they dont agree with things, which is shown by the outrage people have if america doesnt bomb something in retaliation for something else
I'm gonna have to say that you are wrong.
could you state yourself what you own values are
(this isnt been bitchy) i just dont talk to many americans so i thought i might as well ask
You don't know America or the Americans very well do you? My guess is I have met far more Americans and count far more as friends than you do, both through my work here and during my travels in the US.
A bit surprising, for someone who "owns property" there...
I said one of the most repulsive, not the most repulsive.
In any case, putting the Nazis aside, how many of the countries above have bombed, invaded and/or illegally occupied more than 20 countries in the last few decades? How many of them have claimed to be lovers of freedom and democracy while actually doing the opposite and removing democratic governments and replacing them with fascist dictatorships? How many countries have the cheek to lecture others about dictators owning WMDs and the need to remove them by force when they were shaking hands with the said dictator and selling him the WMDs in question a few years earlier (and the Kurds be fucked)?
Get a grip.
Now – to the point, I have been known to be more on the “right side”– with just about everything concerning politics – abortion (I’m pro life but I don’t feel that abortion should be illegal – I do think that it is too easy to get an abortion – I have MANY friends who’ve had abortions and were never even counseled, now they regret it, I think it should also be limited to one abortion only….. you get one mistake and then you learn to use birth control), border control (which isn’t being done very well, I do want people from all over the world to be able to live in this country but I think the background checks should be more extensive), economy (which is horrible right now, we are spending too much on war), taxes (which are high right now – I wouldn’t mind if my money were going to something good), education (which is finally getting better – believe it or not, this is bc of Bush’s no child left behind act) and crime (which I think we should be tougher on murder, rape, kidnapping and child abuse and less with drug dealers, drug users and theft).
Things I lean more toward the left on: THE WAR!!!!!! I am absolutely SICK of seeing these young BRAVE men and women die for nothing…. And yes, I do believe it’s for nothing! I hate that the religious right is taking over this country – I think they are nothing short of a cult and something needs to happen to stop them, every time one of our republican congressmen votes for something too left - they are torn apart by the religious right….. it’s absolutely wrong!
Now that I’m rambling on and on….. I only have one more thing to say, just because I don’t agree with this war doesn’t mean that I don’t support our military. I’m in college and I am the president of my schools political group, every semester we collect supplies (beef jerky, candy, phone cards, soap, money, ect) for our troops – last semester we collected enough supplies to make care packages for over 1000 soldiers and over $2000 worth of phone cards)
Now that I’ve gone on and on about some of my beliefs/ values I hope you might have a bit more favorable outlook on Americans….. if I rambled too much and didn’t totally answer your question… then I apologize.
PS.. about your hamburger/hotdog comment - I am a vegetarian! I eat tofu hamburgers and hotdogs sometimes
America supports despots and corrupt regimes wherever it suits. FFS, America is partly responsible for the Taleban, Saddan Hussein and al Queda's existence through their support in 80's...when it suited their own interests. There's more than a suggestion that the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was US-provoked...America can only blame themselves for the association of Islamic groups now seeking to attack them...Frankenstein's monster anyone?
What the fuck has that list got to do with America anyway? Yeah, there's corrupt and fanatical regimes across the world...including the US itself...so? Listing some undesirable desposts has no relation to the debate...
What of American support for General Suharto (described by Clinton as "our kind of guy"), leading to over 1,000,000,000 deaths in Indonesia? The bombing of Nicaragua (including specifically targetting civilian infrastructure) ignoring internation law, which left the country devastated? Invasions and hinderence of Cuba, which has never been allowed to develop as it should have done? Providing arms for Turkish atrocities? Vietnam?
America has been declared the world's leading terrorist nation by the World Court - FACT.
And that's supposed to impress us? Sending supplies to support the US war machine?
How about sending them to the Iraqi victims of war...who barely have a state to support them?
How about taking something I write out of context and turning it into bullshit with out reading the rest?
That really sucks, you can read that whole thing and the only thing that you get out of it is that I'm trying to impress you..... that is such shit! I am in NO WAY trying to impress anyone, someone asked about MY values and I answered them.
im sorry but making abortions harder to get is not solving the base problem of not having the councelling in place, thats the problem
why cant you just be consistently tough with crime that affects people, i agree on the murdering and rape bit, but drug users are not the problem, its drug dealers, add them to the list
basically with the abortions, you have one abortion and then they learnto use birth control? what happens if they were using birth control?
Winner? If their economy hadn't collapsed, they would still be winning! And don't get cocky over that... Economists are predicting the US economy will collapse soon!
And perhaps then you won't laugh at Russia anymore, when you know what it is to have your empire fall around you.
So Stalin killed alot of people? Yeah, not like the US has slaughtered millions of innocents is it? Hmm, you invaded your current homeland and wiped out AN ENTIRE RACE. THAT is what the USA is based upon.
Well, I guess big drug dealers could be added to my list, but basically when I'm saying "drug dealer" I mean the one's who are selling to support their own habit... Small time dealers. I didn't say that drug users are the problem - maybe I didn't word it clearly enough - I think we punish drug users too harshly and they are crowding up our court system and prisons. In my opinion rehab is the place for drug users - not jail.
Abortion - well, that's just how I feel, you can agree or disagree with me all you want, but it won't change my mind. If they were already using birth control and they still got pregnant, well, I don't know - I guess I'd say they sould start using a different type of birth control..... if they still get pregnant.... use two types of birth control.... if that doesn't work - well then I don't know, stop having sex.
And I don't think you can really dismiss the atrocities committed Stalin so easily, or the fact that the USSR is gone the US isn't.
Ok. But why not answer my question.
Who needs supplies more? American troops backed up by logistics and a big, wealth state...or Iraqis living in squalor with their country in ruins?
Why punish drug users at all? You seem to think "drug users = drug addicts" which is of course bullshit. Addiction to crack/heroin etc (and i suppose meth is problematic over there too) is largely a result of social consequence...poverty etc. Drugs such as cannabis, Ecstasy, cocaine, magic mushrooms, lsd, amphetamines...etc etc...are used largely recreationally, transcending social class, without much problem. The answer is decriminalisation...prohibition only causes problems, and solves absolutely nothing. It's a amusing & telling fact that you have a higher level of cannabis use than holland...where it's effectively decriminalised...your laws don't work at all...it's basically persecution.
I'm a recreational drug user...there's no need for prison or rehab, thank you very much... :wave:
Abortion is aonfused: . tricky issue...morally very dubious...but, without legal abortion, you're only going to force it underground...which is obviously out of question.
it has been known for people who use two forms of contraception for pregnancy to happen, and they are then at no fault of their own for getting pregannt, how would you go about it then
I don't know what you got out of what I said, but I don't think you are getting it. I don't agree with the war, I've had several people I know die in Iraq (all reported as "traffic accidents") I know that the thought is that American troops have everything..... that is totally NOT TRUE. I'm not sending money so that they can by more guns and bombs, I'm sending gum, hand lotion, phone cards and candy to HOME SICK KIDS! Many of the soldiers there don't even agree with the war, they don't want to be there, but they have no choice! These are people younger than me, usually 18-22 year olds! Most of the people I know, joined the military so they could get money for college.... others joined right after 911 because they wanted to get Bin Laden - they didn't know THIS was going to happen.
I don't want ANYONE to die. To be honest I wouldn't even know how to send stuff to Iraq. It is very difficult to get packages shipped there.
I'll make a deal with you - if you find out how I can start a fundraiser and send supplies to the Iraqis - I will. You can help.
I really don't know, I'm not a magical person.....I don't have all of the answers. If you don't want kids and you have a series of abortions, then why wouldn't you get your tubes tied? I have to say that I would!
I just think it's wrong, I honestly know two girls I went to high school who seemed to use abortion as their form of birth control. They didn't use protection and both had 3 abortions. If people try and prevent pregnancy, then maybe there could be an exception to my rule, but if they are not trying to prevent it - then I absolutely think - 1 abortion - NO MORE!
Amnesty International, groups like that help out...
Why are you a political activist for the Democrats? They're just as bad as the Republicans...they support the war in iraq, the war on drugs...it's like Labour and the Conservatives over here in the UK...some differences in policy but you know that, in reality, you're going to get pretty much more of the same.
If you're seriously against the war...then that's at least a start...educate yourself about your country's foreign policy...and you'll see the blantant self-interest which disregards life without the slightest procrastination.
Oh PLEASE! I don't really even think that drug users should be punished - I'm saying that our prisons are over crowed with drug users - if my country insists on punishing drug users - they should go to rehab not jail.
I used to occasionally do drugs, I don't anymore, personal choice (that and I'm in law enforcement and they do drug tests), I don't think there is really anything wrong with recreational drug use.
do you just enjoy arguing or what?