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child vegans are 'unethical'

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    good on ya, I wont discriminate against plants or mamals, im hungry so ill eat both.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Isenheart8 wrote:
    Plants Have a central nervous system,
    no they dont.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    90% of the children wanted the healthy stuff.

    i think our wee ones account for the 10% ;)

    actually, my nephew eats pretty well, but he does go through weird stages. he had a stage where he'd only eat orange foods. luckily this included stuff like carrots, sweet potato and oranges, but it was a total nightmare getting any proteins into him.

    left to his own devices, i think he'd live entirely on quavers, ham and bananas.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rainbow bright,
    Plants and mamals are both living things, what give you the right to decide which is superior, are you god?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i didnt say one was superior, I said that plants dont have a central nervous system or a brain, therefore have no capacity to feel pain/fear, so its not `cruel` as such to kill them. Its also a lot more environmentally sustainable.
    I personally am not a vegetarian by the way, if that makes any difference.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i didnt say one was superior, I said that plants dont have a central nervous system or a brain, therefore have no capacity to feel pain/fear, so its not `cruel` as such to kill them. Its also a lot more environmentally sustainable.
    I personally am not a vegetarian by the way, if that makes any difference.
    Depends... some people do believe plants have feelings. Spirits and whatnot.

    Imagine if more and more people started becoming vegan, how much of the environment would be destroyed by creating more crops to deal with consumer demands, then how much pollution would come from pesticides and transport... Then how many farms would go out of business.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    if the world became vegetarian (hypothetically) it would be far more sustainable than it is now.

    'In environmental terms, meat-eating is a costly habit. The world's livestock herds consume increasing quantities of land, energy, and water. A quarter of the earth's landmass is used as pasture for livestock; more than half the farmland in the USA is devoted to beef production. While it takes, on average, 25 gallons (113 litres) of water to produce a pound of wheat in modern Western farming systems, it requires an astonishing 2,500 gallons (11,250 litres) of water to produce a pound of meat. Throughout the world, livestock herds accelerate erosion and desertification; 85% of topsoil loss in the USA is attributed to livestock ranching, for example.' Joni Seager, The State of The Environment Atlas, Penguin Books, 1995.

    'In cycling our grain through livestock, we waste 90% of its protein and 96% of its calories. An acre of cereal can produce five times more protein than an acre devoted to meat production; and legumes (beans, lentils, peas) can produce ten times as much. Thus the greater the human consumption of animal products, the fewer people can be fed.' Joni Seager, The State of the Environment Atlas, Penguin Books, 1995.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MoonRat wrote:
    Depends... some people do believe plants have feelings. Spirits and whatnot.

    .
    yeah maybe but im talking about scientific stuff, not what a few loonies here and there have made up as theyve gone along.
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    Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Posts: 16,688 Skive's The Limit
    yeah maybe but im talking about scientific stuff, not what a few loonies here and there have made up as theyve gone along.
    I didn't try to find an article on the internet, but I have heard of studies that show plants react to things from the enviroment. There was even research done for using plants in a room to identify people who'd been there recently.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Isenheart8
    "Rainbow bright,
    Plants and mamals are both living things, what give you the right to decide which is superior, are you god?"

    Too many Fern Gully fans out there not knowing what they're talking about. :mad:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Isenheart8 wrote:
    Plants Have a central nervous system, maybe they dont have a brain but they are still alive, and the vegans are killing them :nervous:

    no they don't!
    http://www.broadoak.n-somerset.sch.uk/subjects/science/biology/AQAmod2syll.doc
    Bloody GCSE :mad:

    Plants have a transport system to transport WATER and NUTRIENTS only...
    They have specialised cells and stomata, collenchyma etc. Not neurons and synapses to feel "pain"!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Please your upsetting me i dont want to talk about hurting any more plants ok.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I like to hurt plants, just for fun.
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    SkiveSkive Posts: 15,286 Skive's The Limit
    If none of us ate meat there'd be no animals left.
    I don't want to have to visit a zoo just to see a cow.
    Weekender Offender 
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote:
    If none of us ate meat there'd be no animals left.
    I don't want to have to visit a zoo just to see a cow.

    We don't eat horses .......
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Considering that health professionals have warned that the B-vitamin status of any vegetarian or vegan should be checked regularly, I wonder whether or not it's reasonable to bring up children where vitamin supplements are regarded as essential to the diet. In addition, studies have shown that children born to vegan parents and weaned solely on the mothers milk are more at risk from anaemia. One study even demonstrated that a vegan-mothers breast fed infant suffered from dystrophy, weakness, muscular atrophy, loss of tendon reflexes, psychomotor regression and haemotological abnormalities resulting from low concentrations of B-12 in both the infant and the mother. Is this an effective manner in which to start the development of an infant?

    I would certainly not advise the use of supplements to anyone, because vitamin and mineral supplements interfere with the absorption of other supplements, and some vitamins can build up in tissue and cause illness when taken in high amounts as part of a supplement.

    However, those individuals who provide for their children with high-fat, low nutrient diet are sinning in a much more disgusting manner, fuelling the development of teenage slobs and encouraging unhealthy individuals to develop.

    In conclusion, I believe it's wrong to inflict any variation in diet on a child without proper monitoring to ensure the child is getting ALL the nutrients they require. This is vitally important as we're dealing with a growing organism. However, once the child has reached maturity and ceased to develop - I can't exactly stop him or her doing as he or she pleases.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    dr_carter wrote:
    In conclusion, I believe it's wrong to inflict any variation in diet on a child without proper monitoring to ensure the child is getting ALL the nutrients they require. This is vitally important as we're dealing with a growing organism. However, once the child has reached maturity and ceased to develop - I can't exactly stop him or her doing as he or she pleases.

    Which is exactly what I said two pages ago.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    dr_carter wrote:
    Considering that health professionals have warned that the B-vitamin status of any vegetarian or vegan should be checked regularly, I wonder whether or not it's reasonable to bring up children where vitamin supplements are regarded as essential to the diet. In addition, studies have shown that children born to vegan parents and weaned solely on the mothers milk are more at risk from anaemia. One study even demonstrated that a vegan-mothers breast fed infant suffered from dystrophy, weakness, muscular atrophy, loss of tendon reflexes, psychomotor regression and haemotological abnormalities resulting from low concentrations of B-12 in both the infant and the mother. Is this an effective manner in which to start the development of an infant?

    Can you point to your sources here please. Im wondering who is financing the studies trying to discredit breastfeeding which is widely known to be the BEST possible nutrition for a baby even if the mothers diet is lacking.
    Dont start me off on this one.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Can you point to your sources here please. Im wondering who is financing the studies trying to discredit breastfeeding which is widely known to be the BEST possible nutrition for a baby even if the mothers diet is lacking.
    Dont start me off on this one.

    I strongly suggest you throughly research any vegan-related material on the internet. I have found several sources, all written for the benefit of vegans, stating the dangers of breastfeeding without providing mother or baby with B-12 supplements when the mother is a vegan.

    I didn't for a second suggest that breastfeeding is by any means being discredited, my point was that vegans need to be responsible and consider the needs of the baby above their own ideas and beliefs.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    B vitamins are gained from whole grains and the like though, do you actually get them from animal products?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    why any mother would inflict her political views upon her baby outstands me, to get the amount of protein and bone nutrients from vegetbles alone requires A LOT of protein rich non-meat sources, of which many arent too good in large quantities, simply put a child growing up needs as much variety as possible
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    B vitamins are gained from whole grains and the like though, do you actually get them from animal products?

    "(Vitamin B12) is exclusively synthesised by bacteria and is found primarily in meat, eggs and dairy products. There has been considerable research into proposed plant sources of vitamin B12. Fermented soya products, seaweeds, and algae such as spirulina have all been suggested as containing significant B12. However, the present consensus is that any B12 present in plant foods is likely to be unavailable to humans and so these foods should not be relied upon as safe sources."

    Source - www.vegsoc.org/info/b12.html
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    why any mother would inflict her political views upon her baby outstands me, to get the amount of protein and bone nutrients from vegetbles alone requires A LOT of protein rich non-meat sources, of which many arent too good in large quantities, simply put a child growing up needs as much variety as possible

    Like has been said before, it can be done and the kid could be really healthy, but by restricting your diet down to vegan you are making it harder. Not impossible just harder.
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    SkiveSkive Posts: 15,286 Skive's The Limit
    We don't eat horses .......

    No we ride them, what is your point?
    Weekender Offender 
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote:
    No we ride them, what is your point?

    That not eating animals doen't mean they disappear.

    We erm, don't eat cats and dogs either.....


    :wave:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I would suggest that any breastfeeding mother makes sure she has a good diet and that includes supplementing if necessary whether vegan or not because the breastmilk is likely to still have all the nutrients but if the mothers diet is lacking, it will be at her expense and her milk will probably dry up if shes not eating well enough.I think supplementing for vegans and non vegans is a good idea because the carnivourous diet for most people is by no means healthy. When the amount of people whos meat intake consists of sausages and burgers is as high as it is, I would say that a vegetarian diet is far healthier. Not a vegan diet for small children as they need a lot of fats in their diet under the age of 5. Any vegan considering bringing their child up on that diet should definitely supplement because it would be a lot of effort to make sure vitamin levels are met. You can easily get vegetarian B12 supplements from any health food shop.
    What I am finding hard to get my head round is the demonising of vegans as an irresponsible group. People who are strict vegans are in a very small minority, its hardly a big risk compared to the higher risk for children brought up on a modern day processed fast food diet.
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    SkiveSkive Posts: 15,286 Skive's The Limit
    That not eating animals doen't mean they disappear.

    We erm, don't eat cats and dogs either.....

    Sorry, I didn't realise you were so simple. :o I should have expalained myself better.

    I was talking about agricultural animals - Pigs, Cattle, Sheep etc.
    What's going to happen to them if we don't eat them? Pets? You going to learn to ride a cow?
    Weekender Offender 
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote:
    Sorry, I didn't realise you were so simple. :o I should have expalained myself better.

    I was talking about agricultural animals - Pigs, Cattle, Sheep etc.
    What's going to happen to them if we don't eat them? Pets? You going to learn to ride a cow?

    I can see that, the Derby run on pigs, it would be more interesting.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote:
    Sorry, I didn't realise you were so simple. :o I should have expalained myself better.

    I was talking about agricultural animals - Pigs, Cattle, Sheep etc.
    What's going to happen to them if we don't eat them? Pets? You going to learn to ride a cow?

    Yeah, please excuse my feeblemindedness -

    I wonder where milk and wool come from.....

    :confused:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah, please excuse my feeblemindedness - I wonder where milk and wool come from.....

    You dont get meat from milking cows.
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