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If cannabis was such a danger to mental health...then where are all these casualties? If these supposed risks to mental health were as extreme as you're making out...we'd have seen a mass influx of people into the health system from the 60's onwards. This hasn't happened.
You can vomit if you're not accustomed to the drug - big deal. Nothing compared to the effects of getting too drunk. Abdominal pain? Never heard of it, never experienced it.
I think everyone will acknowledge smoking does cause harm (carcinogens, free radicals...all that)...but what must be said also, is that the damage from cannabis is presumed - not proven. There is some evidence that cannabis actual filters and cleans the lungs.
The relevence of that distinction is surely self-evident...we're talking specifically about cannabis, not people sitting about smoking crack pipes.
Evidence regarding what?
This is true...but it's still a comparison worth making imho. When you have a country with some of the most repressive and backward drugs policies in the Western World having the highest levels of pot smokers per% of population, that's a fairly good indication that prohibition doesn't succeed in reducing usage...
Couple that with the Dutch experience - use after legal relaxation didn't increase - and you've got a pretty good basis for believing cannabis usage wouldn't increase substantially.
Now, where's the evidence to suggest prohibition reduces use??
What problem would there be with controlling the supply?
When it comes to drugs, what is your experience? You've seen a few ragamuffins smoking a joint at a bus stop and then thought to yourself, "mmm...there must be a link to social deprivation"...??
If all drug use is linked to social inequality...does that mean when I walk through Stirling tonight, the students staggering about pished as farts will be products of "social inequality"?
Or does that mean when I'm a sitting in a pub, my pals snorting coke @ £50 a gram in the toilets are "products of social inequality"?
It's no wonder you can't see the light here, because your perception of "drug use" is so way off track.
I'm going to have to say it again - there's different types of drug use, that which is linked to social inequality/deprivation (people taking heroin & crack cocaine) and recreational use which transcends class & social equality. Classing them together is insane.
The only real argument you're using is that of health risks...even though I've repeatedly pointed out that public health is a big reason for legalisation. But still, you seem to ignore the fact that people are smoking glue, transquilisers and boot polish...all because of prohibition...now how does that benefit society as a whole???
Look at it this way - cannabis is ingrained in our culture. Millions of people have, or do smoke it. Links to mental health problems have not been proven, and there's been no mass of dope smokers from past generations claiming to have suffered from mental illness as a result of cannabis. You can never substantially reduce cannabis use - the lies don't hold anymore. It's used by all classes, and by people from all backgrounds - there is absolutely no practical reason to carry on with the madness we're operating under.
something would trigger their problems no doubt.
i know ...we have no way of knowing who the people are who have these underlying mental problems ...that can be triggered by cannabis ...not caused by ...thats tough.
why should the sane people be thrown into jail for the sake of the fucking crazy ones?
i have never been thrown in jail cos one my nieghbours is daft as a brush.
if my doctor wishes to unwind tonight with a spliff ...he should be prosecuted face jail face the loss of his job etc etc ...cos there are some crazy people about who might do the same thing ...
which crimes we talking about here?
It's the same with alcohol and tobacco - a majority of heavy users won't die from their habit, but we still encourage moderation of the former, and cessation of the latter. It doesn't make sense to me to add another to the list of things we want to discourage, and do so by making it legal.
so we are back to square one then ...lets keep it illegal and sometimes poisonous ...lets keep the billions of quids flowing freely to the wrong people ...and all will be well.
If that was the case, the evidence would be there to see...it isn't, because their is no mass of cannabis casualties.
Where did you hear about this "syndrome"?
There is some evidence of a casual link...i'm sure if someone with pre-existing mental health problems sits about all day smoking weed they may encounter problems...that's no reason for the government to prevent the rest of us from smoking...and it's very convenient of you to forget that far more peopleclaim benefits from cannabis than any detriment...you often talk of personal choice, personal responsibility...doesn't that come in right here? Do people not have the right to choose?
We're talking about a plant that's been used for centuries upon centuries with no sign of detrimental effects, it's been getting smoked copiously across the Western world since the 1960's...and there's no mass of people complaining about mental health problems, because they don't exist.
And, in any case, legal or illegal, it continues to be smoked in copious amounts...i thought the job of the government was to rule for the people...not control what they can and can't do in their own homes on some flimsy pre-text of "pre-existing mental health issues" being "exacerbated".
Holland didn't experience a mass increase.
I think it's a fundamental right to be able to grow your own without threat of prosecution or your plants confiscated. But that's beside the point anyway.
So you have no experience of what you're talking about.
In what way aren't you convinced? People are smoking glue, shit and tranquilisers because of prohibition - fact.
Evidence suggesting a casual link is not proof.
So you're fighting your corner on the basis of, going on the evidence of Holland, a false presumption that legalisation increases use...which, because of some evidence suggesting a "casual" link with mental illness amongst those with pre-existing mental health problems, warrants continued prohibition...even though it has achieved absolutely NOTHING.
Meanwhile, millions of people are smoking glue, tranquilisers, shit, plastic and boot polish...and i've seen first hand people coughing up blood after smoking that shite...had severe chest pains myself...and all because of prohibition.
Open up your eyes!
Why would we want to discourage it?
Used responsibly, it can enhance your life.
Answer this question...do you believe I have the right to light up and smoke the joint sitting next to me? Because, when you strip it all away, that's what this argument comes down to...
Likewise. First of the day, always the best :angel: .
i'm ok ...i was crazy before i started smoking this shit.
Well I have to admit, my thought process are currently pretty crazy, and that's half way through my second joint...
I think it's time to give the computer up for the night...before I start posting even more nonsense than usual :cool: .
However, I'd be interested in whether you think the Sudan 1 food dye should be banned. Do I have the right to buy food containing Sudan 1 or should the government make rules banning a substance that has been used in food for generations? Fair enough. Don't use the argument about legalisation providing tax revenue for the government then. I've never become psychotic after smoking cannabis, but I have seen people who did. And I saw a chap on Friday with this Adelaide syndrome. I'm not quite sure why the legality of cannabis would have any effect on this. It's not about pre-existing mental illness: cannabis can trigger mental illness that didn't otherwise exist.
you expect to be protected from harmful adulterants being added to anything you consume ...surely a cannabis user should expect the same?
sudan 1 was never intended as a food product ...whats this centuries bullshit?
there is no science ...no medical evidence that cannabis sent anyone crazy!this has never happened!
please give me a source ...
Google it.
beans ...you expect to be poison free. cannabis you KNOW ...is totaly without control so you have to be extra careful. it doesn't have to be that way ...shouldn't be that way.
how do you propose that our cannabis can be safeguarded?
the only link i have read is a pile of maybes and ifs and buts ...show me ...
Take your pick
legalisation for the enth time ...would mean no control whatsoever to huge control ...liciensed producers and distributors ...at up to ten billion quid a year it would be a very attractive proposition to many large companies and banks.
have you noticed that since the yanks legalised alcohol ...they got rid of an amazing amount of health and crime problems associated with one particular product.
i'll read the links tommorow.
None...but the statistics are there as proof that diabetes obviously is a widespread and recognised illness. Where are the statistics with cannabis? They don't exist. If there was some kind of mass of people with cannabis-induced mental health problems, the right wing press would not only be all over it, but there would medical evidence & statistics. But this isn't the case.
If someone is getting abdominal pain, stop smoking. Anyway, any pains people are getting is probably a result of smoking soapbar...again, a product of prohibition :rolleyes: .
You've taken my words out of context...i acknowledge the potential for some problems amongst chronic smokers with existing mental health problems.
But...if cannabis was a serious threat to people's mental health, we'd know about it, considering its levels of use in the last half century. Where are all these people, why does no-one know them, and why are there no medical statistics?
But you support a system which criminalises people for that choice...that's what I call hypocracy.
If you acknowledge personal choice, acknowledging legalisation as the answer to the question of cannabis legality is the logical progression...
That's just absurd as a comparison. Sudan 1 food dye can no doubt be replaced with an alternative which doesn't pose a health risk, so there's no rationale for its use.
The argument is still valid. The government would still derive tax from cannabis consumption, regardless of whether cultivation was legalised...not everyone would be growing their own plants...and the top quality stuff is largely not homegrown...so even with cultivation legal, revenue would still be substantial.
Pyschotic? What was the nature of their pyschosis? Please tell me more...
Legalisation = No more soapbar.
No more soapbar = No more smoking smoking glue, horse shit and plastic.
No more smoking glue, horse shit and plastic = Better public health.
Better public health = Reason for legalisation.
Can you show me evidence for this? I scanned over the BMJ link you put up, but I didn't see anything of particular note...
I have seen some statistics which show relatively high rates of mental health problems amongst young people who have smoked cannabis...but, to be honest, there's other factors you have to take into account...quite a high proportion of young people who could be described as "fucked up" to start off with smoke dope...so it's not a case of normal little innocent teenagers smoking dope and suddenly flipping out...but people who are already somewhat weird/mentally unbalanced possibly exacerbating their existing problems.
Who mentioned E?
We're talking about cannabis legalisation, not whether "drugs are ok".
I can't tell you that that wouldn't have happened if he hadn't smoked cannabis, but the psychiatrist was of the opinion that this was the main contributing factor. This guy was smoking pot every day. This is the bit I don't understand. Don't "scan", read.
He may well have been using more pot because he was already in the early stages of a psychotic episode perhaps?
Its a little "chicken and egg" this one.....
You know, you guys are never going to convince each other.
Perhaps you should discuss in person, over a spliff