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Husband/wife would be irrelevant. If I wanted to split my wealth equally amongst my neices and nephews as if I were married to them, then I should be allowed. Surely this would defeat the object of marital tax breaks though...
That would be the main obstacle to such an initiative. The people who want the government to support Christian marriage would oppose any moves to dilute that effort by removing the financial perk. The 'muslim threat' makes a useful scare tactic.
I believe in respecting everyone's beliefs. I also believe women should be treated equally.
According to 'sharia law' that is treating women fairly.
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If Islam is incompatible with Western Culture, aren't Muslims the ones who'd best realise that? They continue to migrate to the West though, so maybe it's the West which has a problem with Islam rather than vice versa.
But a tax break for multiple wives is definately in order...we have mamonites (mormons) here in the US that have over 20 wives...and I just can't imagine the 'hell' that must be for everyone. One fellow has 85 children...and they are on the dole...doing quite nicely too...but dang, 85 kids. Dreck ~
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Lukesh the kind of problems mentioned on this board, that come about when Islam and the West collide, are always gonna cause friction. We either kick the Muslims out, or we try and get along (knowing there'll be constant tension and an occassional blow-up). I selfishly say we try and get along simply because I like Muslims and Islam. I don't think there's the slightest benefit to the Western countries who've had large scale immigration of Muslims, just a whole host of problems, but it benefits me.
I have no problem at all with a man considering ten women all to be his wife, although this cannot LEGALLY be the case in this country, but I have the problem with these people trying to use a religious practise which is not legally recognised in this country simply to avoid paying tax.
If you can only have one wife legally, then you can only have one wife for tax purposes.
This law would prove unworkable, because everyone would just say they had ten wives. If there had to be a level of "proof" then it would discriminate against those who abide by the law, and it would discriminate against women because, religiously or otherwise, they can only have one husband.
As for this law endorsing primogeniture, then it is disgusting and backward to believe that property can only be inherited through the male lineage of a family. If you want to believe in something as backward as that, then you should pay for it.
Is Christianity at large forever linked with the fundamentalist minority that bashes gays and pre-martial sex, murders abortion clinic doctors and teaches Creationism to their kids? Is it fair to say that all Christians are like that?
Freudian slip or typical South Londoner, screw you and then beat you up?
All the extreme examples of Christian behaviour are part and pacel of Christianity Aladdin. Just as the extreme beliefs of some Muslims are part and parcel of Islam. Accept the friction as inevitable or kick 'em out. They're your only options.
don't think that, i think we should all get along, humans should be proud of themselves for what we've achieved, never happen though.
I don't know how primogeniture came into this conversation. I recall that there is a British isle that retains that law, but it's not a part of Islam.
*Property Rights
'Under the laws of Islam, women have obtained the right to sell and buy properties, own business, take legal actions, vote, and participate in political affairs. Inheritance law was/is also among the most important rights. According to Islam, a woman inherits, half the share of her brother. At the same time a daughter, can chose but has no the obligation to support her parents or children, while her brother does. A man, a brother, has the obligation, by the rules of Islam, to support his mother, wife, children, sisters, and the children of his sisters if necessary. If a woman, a mother, a sister did not have the wealth or the desire to support her children, it would become the duty of her brother to support them. The Prophet (swa) has introduced the rules and the laws for humanity, some honor the rules and some chose not to. Under Islamic law, women also have control not only over their property but also dowry claims. Once she is married, she may demand her dowry from her husband at any time, and in the case of divorce, she would receive her share of the property.'
Yeah, that is pretty much the way I see the christers...not a value judgement mind you (well maybe it is) but do understand that I have read the old books...on both sides of this issue.
The islamic people I've known (there is a mosque a mile up the street from my house) have been pleasant and gracious and very warm...can't always say that for the christers. The difference is basically this;
If a group of islamics go on jahid they are justified in killing any other islamic that won't help or shelter them;
If a christer, Erick Rudolph comes to mind, goes on a 'crusade' against jewish abortionists and takes out a few with bombs and bullets...he also garners some support from those of his bent. But overall the nominal christers will come out and hunt him down for being such a bother to them and their easy life.
Adolph Hitler was born and raised a Catholic but was never 'X' communicated from the 'church' so it does make you wonder where these things might go...islam likewise suffers from not having a 'great' caliph just as the pope rules only those who still hold with that 'older' version of churchanity.
Yes folks...truly we live in the most interesting and exciting period in the history of the world...and the most dangerous.
And today with the worst natural disaster in recent history in a predominately moslem country we have most of the non islamic countries coming to their aid...and without any strings attached that require 'conversion' from their present faith ~ interesting don't you think?
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I like the muslims I've known just as much as anyone else, as people are pretty much the same wherever they come from, whatever their skin colour and whatever their religion, whatever whatever in fact. As someone raised in the wishy-washy Anglican church I admire the Islam which has clear principles and doesn't waver. Brings it's problems though.
Read on cousins...there is a change coming to the EU and we're not must talking about marrage taxes.
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Frontpage magazine is a wankfest for wide eyed right wing crazies.
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Geting over the new year yet? And to think it was only 1995 yesterday...ah, maybe a bit more than yesterday but time be flying, things just keep hapening.
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I think Man of Kent said something on another thread about terrorism being the new cold war. Actually, I think more specifically that the ideology of Communism has been replaced with Islam. Not a very subtle juxtaposition, but whoever said the Neo Cons were subtle? Scare stories about what 'they' are doing in other countries, and what 'they' might do here... I hate the idea about a law defending religions from criticism (which is what it would become, whatever the government says), but against such blatant manipulation of facts, even an imperfect law might be required.
I'm only posting about the criticism of a link. I think we should debate the content of the link rather than the source freethepeeps. I can't muster much interest for anti-islamic stuff, but let's judge the content rather than the source
Well I think this is the bravest and most honest post I've read since joining. The tensions inherent in any mixed ethnic, racial, or religious society (if anybody has a cure they've invented World Peace after all!) are never admitted by 'our' politicians. Either 'World Peace' or 'Inevitable Tension', either they've found a cure for humanity's problem or they haven't. Fact or fiction. So if you accept reality, tensions between different ethnic, racial and religious groups are inevitable and sadly there is no known cure. The ongoing (50 years and counting) worry that people in Britain have about large scale immigration of hundreds of thousands, millions in fact, of people who have different cultures, beliefs and loyalties, has been portrayed too often as racist or stupid. Lukesh's post gives lie to that idea, he's not racist or stupid, he's brave and he's honest. He articulates well the worry that many (most?) have about our ability to rub along together. It's a valid worry and it simply hasn't diminished over the years. Every time I return to Bradford from my globetrotting, the 'Whites' are more 'racist' and the 'Pakis' are more 'disenfranchised'. My posts will show I'm more concerned than most on this board at the (recent) relentless knocking of Muslims and Pakistanis in the media, but I back Lukesh's views 100%, the views of those who are already here and British are too often ignored (in a democracy?). Aren't they?
Apologies to Lukesh if I've misrepresented his views. My views hold.
http://www.freeman.org/m_online/dec97/phares.htm
"AL-TAQIYA...
The Muslim Method Of Conquest
By Professor Walid Phares
In the early years of the Tawheed (Islamic conquest of the Arabian peninsula) and in the Fatah (Arab-Islamic invasion and conquest of the upper Middle East and the outside world), a Muslim concept was devised to achieve success against the enemy, Al-Taqiya..
Al-Taqiya, from the verb Ittaqu, means linguistically dodge the threat. Politically it means simulate whatever status you need in order to win the war against the enemy..
According to Al-Taqiya, Muslims were granted the Shar'iya (legitimacy) to infiltrate the Dar el-Harb (war zone), infiltrate the enemy's cities and forums and plant the seeds of discord and sedition. These agents were acting on behalf of the Muslim authority at war, and therefore were not considered as lying or denouncing the tenants of Islam. They were "legitimate" mujahedeen, whose mission was to undermine the enemy's resistance and level of mobilization. One of their major objectives was to cause a split among the enemy's camp. In many instances, they convinced their targeted audiences that Jihad is not aimed at them, that indigenous people are not targeted, only Bysantium power. They convinced many Jews that they will be protected from Christians, called pagans, and they convinced many Christians that Jews were the mortal enemies, because they killed Issa (Jesus). They convinced the Aramaics, Copts, and Hebrews that the enemy is Greece, and signed peace agreements with the Bysantines Greeks at the expense of Maronite Aramaics, etc.
This Jihadic agency of subversion was one of the most fascinating and efficient arms of the conquest. In less them four decades the MIddle East fell to the Arab-Islamic rule, followed by north Africa and Central Asia.
Al-Taqiya was a formidable weapon, used by the first dynasties and strategists. Today, scholars may identify it as deception. But the Jihadic deception was and still is more powerful than the James Bondian methods of Western classical intelligence tactics, for the simple reason that it has a civilizational, global dimension versus the narrow state interest of the regular Western subversive methods.
Al-Taqiya is still in use today but not necessarily state-organized. One can easily detect Taqiya in the two discourses used by Islamist strategists. On the one hand, one comprehensive Islamist theory is attempting to mobilize Middle East, and sometimes Western Christia leaders and intellectuals, against "evil Jews." We see considerable success on that level. And on the other hand, another Islamist comprehensive theory is attemting -with success also- to mobilize the Jews against "evil and pagan Christians." One can easily detect the sophisticated work of Taqiya, for the strategic objective of Islamists is to destroy the foundations of the Judeo-Christian civilization, as a prelude to the defeat of an isolated Israel.
Taqiya is not a unique phenomenon in History, many strategists from all backgrounds implemented subversion. But the uniqueness of today's Taqiya is its success within advanced and sophisticated societies. Taqiya is winning massively because of the immense lack of knowledge among Western elites, both Jewish and Christian.
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Whenever you encounter disbelievers strike off their necks untill you make great slaughter among them(koran 47:4)
Punishment for those who oppose allah and his messenger is execution, crucifixion or cutting off hands and feet from opposite sides(koran 5:34)
Kill the disbelievers wherever you can find them(koran 2:191)"
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