Class

Former Member

Originally posted by bongbudda
Look, lets be a little blunt about this.

We all agree that breeding is important, right, you can see it in horses, etc. etc.

So, although its an unpaletable idea this also works for humans.

Those at the bottom of society are normally the product of those who have been there for generations.

So, if one can accept that people are born smarter than others, should this not lead us to believe that smartness is genetic. Thus are we not led to the conclusion that those at the bottom start with a 'muddier' genetic pool shall we say.

This is of course not to suggest that all lower class people are thick, they clearly are not. But statistically it is more likely.

Again, totally lacking in any kind of economic or social analysis.
Basically, you're chatting shit.

Former Member

Originally posted by Fiend_85
Even though it patently does. You can think whatever you like, as unpopular and controversial as it is, it remains true, that some people are born less intelligent than others.

Yes, but class has nothing to do with it.

Former Member

Originally posted by Fiend_85
Though it tends to be true that people who are born clever will earn more and therefore be middle class. People born with less mental ability will earn less and therefore be working class.

:banghead:

Oh dear

Former Member

Originally posted by Blagsta
Yes, but class has nothing to do with it.

That depends on your definition of class, and how you might look at it.

Former Member

Originally posted by Fiend_85
That depends on your definition of class, and how you might look at it.

What is your defintion then?

Former Member

Originally posted by Blagsta
How can you not see the relevance? We're talking about class. One of the definitions of class is the economic one - workers and owners of means of production.

How is that not relevant?

Because life is more complicated then workers and owners of means of production.

And even if surplus value is a valid economic phenomenon (which itself is debatable), it alone cannot explain class differences such as behaviour, education and aspirations. Class is bigger than economics.

Former Member

Originally posted by Blagsta
You're totally lacking in any kind of economic or social analysis, which is why I said "oh dear".

0/10, must try harder. :rolleyes:

I'd argue that I am actually trying to analyse what determines one's class, whereas you and others are simply being oversensitive to simple facts of life: that those of less economically advantaged backgrounds are generally less educated and have different aspirations from those of relatively privileged backgrounds.

Former Member

Originally posted by Kentish
I'd argue that I am actually trying to analyse what determines one's class, whereas you and others are simply being oversensitive to simple facts of life: that those of less economically advantaged backgrounds are generally less educated and have different aspirations from those of relatively privileged backgrounds.

Yes - and?

Are you suggesting that aspirations are innate?

Former Member

Originally posted by Kentish
Because life is more complicated then workers and owners of means of production.

And even if surplus value is a valid economic phenomenon (which itself is debatable), it alone cannot explain class differences such as behaviour, education and aspirations. Class is bigger than economics.

Yes, and I've tried to ascertain if we are talking about social class or economic class. No one seems to know or indeed care.
What are your definitions of class?

Former Member

Originally posted by freethepeeps
Are you suggesting that aspirations are innate?

No, the opposite. Aspirations are learnt, so why do you think working class folk have different aspirations? Surely education/intelligence is an explanation?

Former Member

Originally posted by Kentish
I'd argue that I am actually trying to analyse what determines one's class, whereas you and others are simply being oversensitive to simple facts of life: that those of less economically advantaged backgrounds are generally less educated and have different aspirations from those of relatively privileged backgrounds.

Eh?

I'm trying to define what we are talking about - economic or social class.
Some people seem to be trying to look at social problems and difference without locating their argument in a social and economic context. Which is absurd.

Former Member

Originally posted by Blagsta
Yes, and I've tried to ascertain if we are talking about social class or economic class. No one seems to know or indeed care.
What are your definitions of class?

My point of starting the thread was to discuss what determines class. I don't have answer for you, other than to say that class is a state of mind that is influenced many economics, education, ambitions, opportunities etc.

ps I think we were talking about social class rather than economic class.

Former Member

Originally posted by Kentish
No, the opposite. Aspirations are learnt, so why do you think working class folk have different aspirations? Surely education/intelligence is an explanation?

Different aspirations from who? What do you mean by "working class"?

Former Member

Originally posted by Blagsta
Eh?

I'm trying to define what we are talking about - economic or social class.
Some people seem to be trying to look at social problems and difference without locating their argument in a social and economic context. Which is absurd.

No one has talked about social problems yet. Social class is clearly related to wealth, but that is not the sole determinant. I am currently seeking answers to the clear difference between classes.

Former Member

Originally posted by Blagsta
Different aspirations from who? What do you mean by "working class"?

Exactly.

Do people not have different life aspirations, and are they not related to perceived class?

Former Member

You tell me.

Former Member

Originally posted by Blagsta
You tell me.

OK I will (if it was not already obvious from what I have been saying).

I think those from less economically advantaged backgrounds (who I will label 'working class') have different aspirations from those of more privileged backgrounds (who I will label 'middle class').

The relation to class is due to many things, amongst which are: upbringing (eg parenting, family values), economic (eg family income, value of money), education (eg schooling, stimulation at home), life aspirations (eg career, family values), external opportunities (eg state services) etc...

What do you think?

Former Member

There are cultural differences between classes and there are cultural differences within classes.

You haven't really said much, apart from people can have different views on life depending on their social and economic circumstances. That's hardly big news, is it?

Former Member

Anyway, I already stated my position.

Re: Class

quote:Originally posted by Kentish
Is there a working class in this country any more?



Yes.

quote:Originally posted by Kentish
Is Britain a classless meritocracy?



No.

Former Member

Originally posted by Blagsta
There are cultural differences between classes and there are cultural differences within classes.

You haven't really said much, apart from people can have different views on life depending on their social and economic circumstances. That's hardly big news, is it?

This isn't news, this is politics and debate.

Is class good, bad or indifferent?

Should we as a society be aiming to reduce the working class?

Former Member

Originally posted by Kentish
Should we as a society be aiming to reduce the working class?

Who would do the work then?

Former Member

Originally posted by freethepeeps
Who would do the work then?

What work?

Former Member

Originally posted by Kentish
What work?

The work that the working class do.......

Former Member

Im getting lost here.

Former Member

Originally posted by freethepeeps
The work that the working class do.......

The workers of a classless society.

Former Member

Originally posted by Kentish
The workers of a classless society.

So there'd be no ruling class, no working class, and no middle class?

Are you a socialist?

Former Member

Originally posted by Kentish
The workers of a classless society.

class is down to eduacation and money then is it not?
with a good education and plenty of dosh your not going to be driving a bus or shovelin shit.

Former Member

Originally posted by morrocan roll
class is down to eduacation and money then is it not?
with a good education and plenty of dosh your not going to be driving a bus or shovelin shit.

There's no reason why bus drivers should be denied a good education. And class isn't dependent on money, as I thought we had agreed.

Former Member

Originally posted by Kentish
This isn't news, this is politics and debate.

I haven't seen much political debate on this thread yet.

Originally posted by Kentish
Is class good, bad or indifferent?

Social class? Economic class? A synthesis of the two? Good for whom? Bad for whom?

Originally posted by Kentish
Should we as a society be aiming to reduce the working class?

Under capitalism?

Former Member

Originally posted by Kentish
a classless society.

Not possible under capitalism.